Supreme Court to Orly Taitz: Obama is eligible and is not committing identity fraud

Today the Supreme Court issued a ruling in the Noonan v Bowen case that clears President Obama on claims made by Orly Taitz of identity theft and serving while ineligible to be President. Taitz had used this case to dump mounds of “evidence” upon the court including a last minute supplement brief with an affidavit from another of Taitz’s stable of Keystone-Kops-like amateur sleuths one Albert Hendershot from Alabama. The court found it was not compelling and issued the one line denial just minutes ago.

Taitz’s motion requested that the certification of the electoral votes in California be stayed as well as the certification by Congress. Both event have long since occurred as well as the Inauguration of President Obama.

Taitz was not available for comment as I wrote this article.

This denial ends the long string of futile litigation for Taitz. All that remains are a couple of exceedingly stupid and moot cases. One is in Mississippi where Taitz sought to prevent Obama’s name from appearing on the November ballot and another in the Eastern District of California where Taitz is suing to prevent the Electoral College from voting and Congress from certifying the electoral vote on behalf on an unsuccessful Romney elector from Minnesota among other losers.

The only reason for following these remaining silly cases is to see if the judges decide to put an end to this pretend lawyer’s abuse of the courts by imposing fees and sanctions that will put enough of a dent in the pocket book of her husband Yosef so that he decides to pull the plug on the antics of his Russian bride who pretends to be a civil rights attorney. Time will tell. Even the California Bar might wake up some day……some day.

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106 Responses to Supreme Court to Orly Taitz: Obama is eligible and is not committing identity fraud

  1. brianh3 says:

    A well-phrased headline. 🙂 I may need to join the Twitter-verse to share the fun.

    • Thank you.

      Of course I don’t know exactly what went on and what did not at SCOTUS (I have a good idea though) except that they denied a completely absurd motion for stay by someone pretending to be a real attorney. I couldn’t resist rubbing it in since Orly Taitz, ORYR, Obama Hustle, and other Birther blogs played this up for weeks as if the Justices were going to sit there pouring over Taitz’s application nonsense for hours and then rule that Obama had committed fraud. Taitz happily let her flying monkeys say over and over again that there was going to be a hearing when she of course knew better. Now that it has been denied they themselves are also in denial.

  2. Dave says:

    Why is that you folks always immediately revert to name-calling? I don’t understand. It would seem to me that people don’t sign their names to affidavits under penalty of perjury just for the heck of it. You know, underneath all of the noise and hoopla about this; there are at least a few facts. Why don’t we stick to them hmm?

    • No one has given an affidavit in this case under penalty of perjury. If you are referring to what we call “daffydavits” like the one Albert Hendershot filed it was not given under penalty of perjury. This case was not in discovery and no one requested sworn testimony.

  3. johnvanpelt187262334 says:

    People sign their names to affidavits under penalty of perjury for many reasons. In the cases of Zullo, Irey, Vogt, and Arpaio (among others) they mostly fall in the category of “Using unexpert techniques, I have carefully examined a completely irrelevant computer file, and in my thoroughly unqualified personal opinion, it has been tampered with.” To which the completely proper answer, from the courts or from any sane person, is “so what?”

  4. Citizen Cane says:

    Obama’s own actions are enough to support some of the birther’s suspicions about his nationality. One of the strongest points of contention, is why won’t Obama release his college records. Is there something to hide? Release of his records would shoot down the birther arguments he is not an American Citizen. However, it is possible Obama is a US Citizen, however, lied on college applications to get loans or consideration. That would also be a form of fraud by means of being a Foreign Exchange Student.

    Trump offered up 5 million $’s for Obama to open his records, but he did not. It would have been the perfect forum for Obama to get a slam dunk in your face on the birther movement right before the election. But Obama did not take the deal.

    Obama’s own actions and words are enough to raise suspicions. “My Muslim Faith,” Michelle said, “Barak’s home country of Kenya”, and the photos of him wearing Muslim clothing. Obama should open his college records to end the birther movement all together. But I suspect there is something to hide in his records.

    • Citizen Kane said:

      Obama’s own actions are enough to support some of the birther’s suspicions about his nationality. One of the strongest points of contention, is why won’t Obama release his college records. Is there something to hide? Release of his records would shoot down the birther arguments he is not an American Citizen. However, it is possible Obama is a US Citizen, however, lied on college applications to get loans or consideration. That would also be a form of fraud by means of being a Foreign Exchange Student.

      No rational person would hold any suspicions about his nationality. He was born in Hawaii, period. That makes him a natural born citizen of the United States. His college records are private and irrelevant to his eligibility to be President. You may dream there is something there but Obama should not release what other Presidents have not to satisfy the prurient interest of a few kooks.

      Trump offered up 5 million $’s for Obama to open his records, but he did not. It would have been the perfect forum for Obama to get a slam dunk in your face on the birther movement right before the election. But Obama did not take the deal.

      Trump is a buffoon. The President has nothing to gain wasting time on this moron. Trump had already shown he is a liar and listening to other liars like Jerome Corsi. There is no reason to believe he was serious with this offer. He would find a way to weasel out just like Joseph Farah has reneged on his promise to donate $15,000 to Kapi’olani hospital.

      Obama’s own actions and words are enough to raise suspicions. “My Muslim Faith,” Michelle said, “Barak’s home country of Kenya”, and the photos of him wearing Muslim clothing. Obama should open his college records to end the birther movement all together. But I suspect there is something to hide in his records.

      No matter what his upbringing President Obama professes to be a Christian today. The is no evidence to the contrary. His religion has nothing to do with eligibility to be President. We do not have a state religion in this country despite what some people seem to think.

  5. johnvanpelt187262334 says:


    Obama’s own ACTIONS …

    … and the “strongest point of contention” brought forward in support of this? Not an action, but an INACTION. Something Obama did NOT do. Debate fail.

    Obama also did not donate $5M to sick babies. Why does Obama hate sick babies?

    Obama did not call me on my birthday. Why does he not respect the tradition of American birthdays?

    Typical birther rubbish.

    Really? You cannot think of ANY OTHER reason why he would not respond to an appeal to release his college records? NO credible reason? I can think of a dozen, easily, none of which have anything to do with having “something to hide.” You can’t, too? Really??

  6. Thomas Brown says:

    Birthers have proven time and again that they are intellectually dishonorable goal-post movers of the sleaziest kind. Rewind: “Show us the BC and this will be all over.” The President’s COLB, the current legal prima-facie authoritative document from Hawaii was produced. “Show us the long form and it’ll all be over.” Even though the COLB is what any Hawaiian would use to get a passport, security clearance, anything… the “long form” is produced. Despite all this, Republican Secretaries of State still ask for their very own official verifications of BHO’s birth in Hawaii. They get them.

    You put a lot of emphasis on “sworn affidavits.” There is no more weighty sworn affidavit than what the Hawaiian officials wrote and signed certifying BHO’s birth records. But somehow, to y’all, these career public servants with clean records (some of them Republicans) are lying and committing fraud, but the “sworn affidavits” of convicted felons, forgers, and fools are rock-solid.

    Nothing exists that can be produced to prove BHO in a perfectly eligible Natural Born Citizen (which he in fact is) that would be acceptable to Birthers. They will, disingenuously and erroneously, insist that WHATEVER is produced is a fake.

    Eventually the Obama Administration basically said “Bite me. You get nothing else.” Birthers won’t accept the authority of BHO’s legally prescribed and sufficient official records which any court of judge in the land would accept, and have accepted. Who in the flock died and made every barely-literate Birther King, or even Judge and Jury?

    We’ve had it, and you can stamp your little Birther feet all you want. You’re done.

    Bite me.

  7. L Allen says:

    After serving four years as the President of these United States and then being re-elected to the Presidents position isn’t it time to allow this man to be the Commander in chief. Why must the majority of people in these United States be sujected to the nonsence of so few. LET IT GO

    L. Allen

    • Absolutely! Well said.

    • Mark says:

      I would love for this man to start acting like a real leader….I’m still waiting….waiting….waiting….*sigh*…. probably won’t happen. I’m no longer worried about where this guy came from or whether he cheated the system along the way…I’m more worried about his current zany ideas and where he wants to take our country, his inability to form consensus with his political opposition, his increasing self-isolation and secrecy, his tendency to be a drama queen, his sense that the Constitution is just so much toilet paper and his notion that he can kill Americans without due process just because he’s President. I think even Liberals would agree with me on that last one. Obama is quickly turning into one scary dude. He’s become our very own Hugo Chavez…

      • Gary R. Barnes says:

        Absolutely! Well said.

        • Thomas Brown says:

          You both need to stop basing your beliefs on Republican/Fox News talking points. Not one thing Mark says is grounded in reality. Typical, really. I have news for you: the world is going to be a bumpy ride for you if you think you can believe whatever you want and it becomes so.

          I pity you.

  8. John says:

    “Joseph Farah has reneged on his promise to donate $15,000 to Kapi’olani hospital.”

    I remember that. However, Obama’s Long Form BC has been proven to be fake by Arpaio’s investigation. WITHOUT ACCESS TO THE ORIGINAL DOCUMENT, anything that Hawaii says regarding verifications is self-serving, especially since the forged copy contains the stamp and seal of Hawaii (Therefore Hawaii has no choice but to state the Obama’s BC is legit.) As for Kapiolani, the hospital has never publically verified Obama was born there. All attempts to gain access to some tangible proof has been met with threats of arrest.

    • ” However, Obama’s Long Form BC has been proven to be fake by Arpaio’s investigation.”

      That is BS. It has not been proven to be a fake, Hawaii has verified it so it cannot be a fake. Why can’t you get that through your pea-sized brain JY?

      • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

        Aw, RC, don’t fluster the poor little fella. He obviously doesn’t have the first clue what a birth certificate actually is.

      • Mary anne says:

        I used to work in L&D in Kapualani Hospital (where he was “born”) They issue a very unique hospital birth certificate. I’ve never seen it. I’ve only seen a long form certificate of live birth. Very different items.

        • Mary anne

          While it would be interesting to see one of those the hospital issued certificates are keepsakes and of no legal value. President Obama has shown two state issued documents that are iron-clad proof that he was born in Honolulu and at Kapi’olani Medical Center.

  9. John says:

    Yes, I agree the college records would compelling to look at. I would like to see documents where Obama may have declared citizenship or place of birth. Recall, that Obama told his literary agent he was born in Kenya. [No, the literary agent made an error. Obama never told her anything of the sort. Why are you lying jy?] The agent claims it was an error but I believe she is probably lying. [Of course you believe she is lying jy because you are a moron.] I would also like to know what kind of funding was involved in Obama’s education. Remember, documented testimony has revealed that Obama’s college funding was financed by the Bill Aryer’s family. [That is from your favorite source Wild Nut Daily and has never been confirmed of course. Ayers and Obama first met in 1995 long after Obama’s college days.]

  10. Nels Wiberg says:

    If you cannot trust the Chief Judge of the United States to know the difference between right and wrong who can you trust?

    • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

      “Chief Judge”? Is there such a thing?

      I would have thought someone who would like to be seen as knowing the law better than the Supreme Court would at least get the title right.

      But we’ll let that slide — since you know the law — imagine you are Chief Justice, and someone applies to the Court for a stay. They ask the Court to prevent — to stay — a state official from carrying out a duty that the official is scheduled to carry out on a specific date. When the Court receives the application, that date is two months in the past, and the state official has already performed the duty that you are being asked to prevent.

      Do you grant the application?

      • Nels Wiberg says:

        I do not pretend to know the law but it is wrong what the courts and doing to the United States. When this country goes to pot it will all be Jodge Roberts fault. Where are the citizens that will stand for right in the United States?

        • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

          You appear to be saying the court was wrong. So in their place you WOULD have granted the application for a stay. And ordered the state official to refrain from performing the act that they already performed two months previously.

          Maybe it’s just me, but that seems pointless, and probably improper. Personally, I would rather the courts not engage in pointless and improper activity.

          I assume you do not understand this point of view.

        • Nels, thank you for commenting on my blog post. You said:

          I do not pretend to know the law but it is wrong what the courts and doing to the United States.

          Can you see the logical inconsistency in your statement? If you took the time to understand the law you would see that the courts have applied the law correctly in every Birther case. Were they to rule otherwise they would be doing the country a great injustice and would be violating their oaths as judges who after all have only one job and that is to apply the law as written.

  11. John says:

    I seriously doubt if even one justice ever saw Orly’s petition. Orly’s petition probably received a DENY recommendation from a SCOTUS law clerk and in Conference the Justice saw a Case Number with recommendation of DENY. The Justice see no need to second guess clerks and rubber stamped the denial. I think RC’s post is misleading. It should state that SCOTUS LAW CLERKS DENIED Orly’s petition; not the justices. In fact, I am willing bet money that not 1 Justice ever read one word of Orly’s petition.

    • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

      John, I’ve looked back through RC’s post, and I’m not seeing where he stated that THE JUSTICES denied Orly’s application (not petition).

      I know birthers are not the most careful of readers and have difficulty with comprehension, but perhaps you could point me to it?

    • johnvanpelt is correct. Orly did not file a “petition”. She filed a motion for stay. The events she was trying to have stayed had already occurred. A real attorney would have never filed such a ridiculous piece of garbage. A real attorney would have at least withdrawn it as moot.

      Did you look at the Order List for the conference that was issued on 2/19? There were over 600 (probably closer to 700) cases that were ruled upon and only one or two petitions or motions were granted. The rest were denied. It had been less than a month since the last conference on January 18th.

      Do you think a single justice read every one of those cases? There has to be a filtering process for the court to function. I can safely predict this piece of garbage filed by Taitz got no more than a sentence or two in a summary by one of the clerks and the word moot was probably used.

  12. Dennis says:

    I say let the non bias experts look at the birth certificate and his college records. Also have them determine the validity of Obama’s SS # and everyone accept their findings as fact. Then if there is indeed a tampered with birth certificate and he is using the wrong SS # ……..Call him to the carpet to explain once and for all and then determine what violations of law he has committed. If there is none then there is nothing to worry about.

    • There is nothing to worry about now.

    • RoadScholar says:

      Moreover, your scenario is impossible.

      If any expert looked at BHO’s Hawaiian records, SS application or anything else and proclaimed them authentic, you Birfoons would holler that the “experts” who did so were biased!

      The only expert finding you would accept as “unbiased” would be one that found that the records are forgeries.

      That’s why we’re done with you idiots: you are not operating in good faith. Good faith means you accept the possibility that you may be wrong, and you don’t.

      You get nothing else. Barack Obama will be remembered as an excellent President, Bush will be remembered as the worst, and there’s nothing you can do about that. Get over it.

      • ray vin says:

        How’s that kool-aid taste? He’s Indonesian, and you guys damn well know it. You libs pulled a fast one, and it will come out, but only after this inept buffoon ruins what’s left of our country. And another thing, the Republicans are just as bad. They allowed this crap to continue when they were in charge. Anything that happens now is our own damn faults. We’re on here arguing with each other while our idiot DC “leadership” continues to deal death blows to our very foundation. Nothing will change. So keep up your sniveling over your unqualified President while the Republicans plot to take over once again and continue Obama’s horrible record. The two parties are actually one and the same.

        • RoadScholar says:

          How’s that racism feel? Does it make you all tingly? Or are you just pissed that Obama on his worst day is brighter and more competent than you on your best day? Does wallowing in your racism and bitterness ameliorate the sting of knowing in the pit of your stomach that actually Obama has been an exceptional President, and history will remember him as such until the day you croak, and for the rest of time? That those who claim he is ineligible or unqualified will rate barely a footnote in history, and even if you are mentioned, it will be to note how feckless and gullible you were?

          Just curious.

          • ray vin says:

            RoadScholar :
            How’s that racism feel? Does it make you all tingly? Or are you just pissed that Obama on his worst day is brighter and more competent than you on your best day? Does wallowing in your racism and bitterness ameliorate the sting of knowing in the pit of your stomach that actually Obama has been an exceptional President, and history will remember him as such until the day you croak, and for the rest of time? That those who claim he is ineligible or unqualified will rate barely a footnote in history, and even if you are mentioned, it will be to note how feckless and gullible you were?
            Just curious.

            Typical lib response to actuall suggestions and debate topics…name-calling. So, I complain about both parties, and you surmise that I’m a racist. Let’s see then, you’re a liberal, so you must be a welfare mooch. See how that works, genius? Both people blaming and calling names doesn’t get anything done, much like our broken Congress and inept President and Cabinet. You don’t think he’s inept? Then how do you explain him not knowing about “Fast and Furious” or ICE letting thousands of illegal immigrant criminals go? He’s either inept or he’s lying…your choice, Moocher.

        • Mark says:

          What did it for me was that Obama confused Star Wars with Star Trek this week. No real American kid would ever do that. LOL. Relax, folks. We only have four more years of Obama and he’ll be gone. We can all move on to a real proven consensus leader like Hillary Clinton or one of several good Republican governors. Liberals can fawn and sigh while fondly remembering Obama. Conservatives can cuss his hide and go into convulsions at hearing his name….and we can all get on with repairing our broke country, our broke businesses, and our broke selves. There will be sunshine after darkness. We all know it.

          • You are kidding right? You actually think that combining a Star Wars and Star Trek meme is proof the President was not born in the US? That is about the dumbest birther claim yet.

        • Joe Mama says:

          This is the very basis of the entire birther movement. It all can be boiled down to “We don’t think Obama is a valid president because we hate him because he’s a n—-r.” Show me one birther anywhere who approves of the job Obama’s doing as president. And while I won’t claim that every birther is racist, I guarantee it would have been a non-issue with them if he were a white man. They hate that he got elected (twice), and the birther (non)issue is the only thing they have to hold onto any more. It’s quite sad, really.

          I do seem to remember a few years back when the Republicans were considering doing away with the natural-born citizen requirement when they thought that Ah-node Schwarzenegger might run for president. Funny how something they saw as unimportant back then is the most important thing ever these days.

  13. Dennis :

    I say let the non bias experts look at the birth certificate and his college records. Also have them determine the validity of Obama’s SS # and everyone accept their findings as fact. Then if there is indeed a tampered with birth certificate and he is using the wrong SS # ……..Call him to the carpet to explain once and for all and then determine what violations of law he has committed. If there is none then there is nothing to worry about.

    I wanted to call the previous President on the carpet for taking us into a war on a packet of lies. I was as successful as you will be with your silliness over a birth certificate. 4000 American men and women died unnecessary over Bush’s and Cheney’s lies. How many have died over piss ant Birthers’ manufactured concerns? I thought so.

    • ray vin says:

      Yep, and how many more have died since Obama has been President? Remember, he was going to get us out of there in less than a year. Yeah, right.

  14. Larry Adler says:

    Legal decisions are made on the criterion of “best evidence”. The “best evidence” of President Obama’s citizenship were the birth certificates he presented. People’s suspicions, “sworn affidavits”, typewriter analyses by non-experts etc. have no probative value. The lower courts recognized this. Eventually it was appealed up to SCOTUS and SCOTUS declined it. End of story.

  15. We seem to have several one and done Birthers posting in the comments here. That is typical Birther behavior though. They leave a comment with stuff they read at Wild Nut Daily or Orly;s blog and when they see they are out of there league they crawl back into the woodwork.

    • ray vin says:

      Riiiiggghhhhttttt. Any time you want to debate, Hoss, you just let me know. My contact info is below, and I will destroy you with facts, something a liberal can’t deal with.

      • RoadScholar says:

        Morons with rumors are not facts. We have the facts, that’s why we know you are full of bullguano.

      • Ray

        Thanks for commenting on my post. Why don’t you lay some of these “facts” on us?

        • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

          He already did. “Obama is Indonesian.” There’s yer fact, right there.

          I’m sure he’ll be along with the documentary evidence directly.

          1. 1960’s era statutes from Indonesia showing that when an American minor lives in Indonesia for at least 3 years, they are granted Indonesian citizenship.
          or 2. 1960’s era statutes from Indonesia showing that when an Indonesian man marries a foreigner, all foreign children from the spouse’s earlier marriage are granted Indonesian citizenship.

          Neither of those is true, so the documents might be hard to come by.

          Plus 3. 1960’s era statutes from The USA showing that natural-born citizen American minors who are granted citizenship of a foreign country, either via residence or via the remarriage of a parent, lose their natural-born citizenship.

          Oops, that one’s going to be hard to come by, too.

          Facts are so inconvenient sometimes.

          Did you know that Soetoro wasn’t even Lolo Soetoro’s real (born) name? There’s a fun fact.

        • ray vin says:

          Okay, Road Scholar, I’ll dialogue with you, as you seem nice enough. I do, however, have a problem with John Van Pelt speaking for me. I’m not an uneducated drone – I can speak for myself. First, let’s just agree to disagree that there has been enough proof of his citizenship. I don’t think so, but you do. I don’t hate you for it, and as an office in the US Air Force, I’ve deployed to fight for your right to state your opinion, whether I agree with it or not. Let’s look at his leadership, or lack thereof. So, Holder’s justice department ran “Fast and Furious” without Obama knowing. Then, Napolitano gave the go-ahead to release thousands of illegal immigrants, and again, Obama didn’t know? Really? Can you imagine a business owner not knowing what his subordinates were doing, and they were making decisions of this magnitude on their own? And what about the military? Can you again imagine subordinate leaders doing whatever they wanted and the Commander not knowing? This proves to me he either doesn’t have control of his own Cabinet, or he’s lying? Because if he didn’t have control, wouldn’t he fire them for such a breach of trust? Why do you think he’s so great? He’s not transparent, like he claims to be. Obamacare is adding trillions to the deficit, although he again lied and said it wouldn’t. Do you think after the government has ran Medicaid, Medicare, the Post Office, Social Security, Solyndra, the list goes on, into the ground that it’s a good idea to give the government control of another 14% of our economy? That’s the definition of socialism, my friend, not capitalism. I could keep going, but until I’m sure you’re not going to devolve to the old reliable tactic of name-calling, I’m not going to waste any more time. And for the record, I’m independent, and I think Republicans are just as much to blame as Democrats for the sorry state of our immoral country.

          • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

            a. If I “spoke for you” I’m sure you’d be able to provide the quote where I did it.
            b. Re: F&F: do you think every President has personal knowledge of every pissant operation started under the previous administration? Yet when it blew up, he admitted he didn’t know about it. Pretty transparent of him — even though he knew he’d get dinged for that, too.
            c. Deportations are at an ALL TIME high under Obama. Enforcement on the borders is WAY up over the Bush years. I’m not familiar with the ‘freeing of the illegal immigrants’ story so maybe you could send an unbiased link? But being an illegal immigrant is not a criminal offense, it’s a civil offense…..
            d. It is so blatantly clear to anyone who knows what socialism is, that this administration is ANYTHING but socialist, that I really wonder where you are coming from. Obama is profoundly centrist and pragmatic. Obamacare is essentially a capitalist template from Republicans for shoring up the health care system. The CBO estimated that REPEALING Obamacare would add $2B to the deficit. — I could cite dozens more major facts illustrating non-socialist policies (e.g., during the Great Crash of 2008-2009, Obama’s advisers pushed for government takeover of the big banks. He refused. Some socialist.)
            e. Is Obama Indonesian? I’m fascinated by that one.

            • ray vin says:

              And Mr. Van Pelt, you’re kiddng about not seeing any articles about ICE releasing thousands of illegal immigrants from jails, right? It’s all over the news. Big Sis even apologized for the timing yesterday. Google it.

  16. RoadScholar says:

    Ray Vin, how can I “dialogue” with someone who has no idea how America works, or to whom you’re speaking?

    Your assumption that I must be a “welfare mooch” is a prime example of your ignorance. I started with no family money whatsoever, and with absolutely zero help from the government or bank funding I started a business now entering its 22nd year. Over that time I have employed over two dozen people. Our work is in hundreds of historically significant buildings, ships, and homes. My wife has worked at the same University for 42 years. We have payed taxes for a combined 78 years.

    Your other characterization of liberals as “idiots” is likewise amusing in a sad sort of way. I am a life member of Mensa, the Colonial Coin Collectors’ Club, the ANA, and the Antique Motorcycle Club. My score on IQ tests over time has varied from 152 to 158. I formed the Fearelesse Shakespeare Library and am preparing a new edition of Shakespeare’s plays, reproducing the flavor of the early Folios but in electronic form to facilitate editing for use as performance scripts. My wife is a published author, a national expert on the relationship between Literature and Film.

    I am more complex and informed than you can possibly imagine. I read three languages besides English fairly well, and speak a smattering of a half-dozen more. I read 20 news sources almost every day. I read military histories, although admittedly only about wars in which America participated. I am trained in rapier & dagger, broadsword, and knife fighting for the stage. My wife and I buy and restore antique houses. I work on my own motorcycles. I collect essays and speeches from the Jackson-VanBuren era, especially concerning abolitionism and the Bank. Some of my early American literature collection is willed to the Library of the University of Virginia, founded by Thomas Jefferson, because I own several items they don’t.

    Does that sound like a stupid mooch to you? But that’s who you think liberals are, because you have bought into the right-wing bullshit. Typical and pitiable.

    As much as I might think you are a towering asshat, I would never dream of accusing you of hating America. I know you love your country, you just go about it differently than I do. But you guys will claim I hate America without a second thought. But that’s only because you think anyone who disagrees with you must hate America. That’s stupid. Monumentally, breathtakingly stupid, plus insulting and counter-productive as well.

    My great-Uncle, Rear Admiral Frank Lyon, signed the surrender papers with the Japanese aboard the Missouri. His grandfather was a minor Confederate general. HIS grandfather started as an indentured servant from Ireland, was elected a Congressman from two States, and died a successful printer and industrialist. My family helped build this country.

    So if you want to know who a Liberal is, fine. Learn a thing or two. If not, you can kiss it.

    • johnvanpelt187262334 says:

      RoadScholar, I’m pretty sure Ray was being sarcastic and deliberately hyperbolic when he said “mooch”. I think he was offended that he was called racist with insufficient evidence, so he was illustrating what it feels like by calling you a “mooch.” For what it’s worth.

      • ray vin says:

        I’ve tried to put some stuff together for you from your previous post. Do me a favor and read it. They are from credible sources, and you can actually view the real footage yourself. I was halfway joking about Obama being Indonesian, but in reality, I think he is Kenyan. Michelle Obama, taped during a speech (2007, I think), stated that “Barack’s birth place is in Kenya.” It’s on Youtube. He has a Connecticut SSN, yet he’s never lived there. He won’t release his college records. Why? Possibly because of the demographic information contained in it. His literary agent had him listed as Kenyan from the early 90s to 2007. The biographical information was supplied by Obama himself. Here are some links:

        Actually, I think that’s the only one you need. You may not like Infowars, but the sources are credible in this article, and there is a link to the Michelle video. That definitely doesn’t lie.

        Here’s another one just in case. Let me know what you think?

        • Northland10 says:

          Is there some corollary to Godwin’s Law that states, the longer a birther goes on, the probability increases that they will cite Alex Jones? Of course, if all you have is a litany of debunked and false claims, your citation list ends up rather short.

          Ray, when they come to take you to your FEMA camp, I recommend asking for one in the upper Midwest. The smell of the pine trees in the morning is just lovely.

        • Larry Adler says:

          That isn’t “evidence”. If Michelle Obama is deposed and is asked, “To the best of your knowledge, where was Barak Obama born?” and she replies “Kenya”, that is evidence. Still, currently the “best evidence” is the birth certificates that Obama released. It is a matter of law.

    • ray vin says:

      Thanks for the diatribe. I was obviously mistaken about you. And this time, Mr. Van Pelt is speaking for me. I guess everything else is lost on you – to me, you’re indicative of how far gone America really is. And after all of this typing, you think it’s still okay for you to call me a racist, yet I can’t call you a mooch because I don’t know you. It’s useless talking to people like you.

    • ray vin says:

      And just for the record, I speak Arabic, Chinese, and German, as well as read and write them. A lot of my enlisted time in the Army was spent in the Middle East, and I am now a war planner in the Pacific Command, hence the Chinese. I, too, devour military history books, and anything in that genre is fine by me. I like to play golf, although my game can stand quite a bit of improvement. My biggest claim to fame, ancesty-wise, is that I’m a direct descendant of Johann Pieter Saling from Kaiserslautern, Germany. He mapped the lower Mississippi for the Spanish, was captured by the French in Louisiana, and imprisoned for several years. He escaped and made his way back to Virginia, where he was declared a hero by the governor and given quite a bit of land. Unfortunately, I have no claim to hundreds of acres of land in Virginia, but such is life. I collect metal military miniatures, and I have quite the collection. I also collect guns, and I have a couple of Colt antiques in the collection. I could be a member of Mensa, as I scored 139 on the proctored exam; maybe I will join someday. As far as a mooch goes, there are probably some smart ones out there…just sayin’. Whether you are one or not, I truly don’t know. But neither do you know whether I’m a racist or not.

  17. johnvanpelt187262334 says:

    I’ve read up on the ICE releases now. So what was your point? That Republicans are in a lather because their refusal to govern is resulting in draconian budget cuts, that agencies across the board are struggling with how to deal with them, resulting in a certain degree of chaos and misinformation? I honestly see no issue with the releases themselves, with the timing, nor with the fact that Obama personally wasn’t aware of the full scope. I see a slight issue with initial reports that only “hundreds” were released, but I view that as a “forced error,” not as a case of lying.

    Infowars? Alex Jones? Credible? Three phrases never before seen in proximity. But I looked. And I’ve seen the Michelle video before. And she very clearly does NOT say “Barack’s birth place is in Kenya,” which was your quote. Nor does she say Barack Obama “visited his home country of Kenya,” which is *their* version of the quote, right above the clip! She actually says, Barack Obama “visited his home country IN Kenya.”

    I don’t know about you, but if my father, grandparents, uncles, cousins, and great-grandparents were born and raised and live in Brazil, or Kenya, or Japan — I’d call the area where they live my home country as well. Wouldn’t you? Hell, my ancestors came to New Amsterdam from the Netherlands in *1680*, and I still think of Holland as the home country.

    Obama was also proud of visiting his home country of Ireland a couple years ago — where his mother’s family originally came from.

    How does any of that impeach the massive, independently corroborated, officially confirmed, fully documented FACT of his Hawaiian birth? It doesn’t even touch it. Give me a break. Obama is the most deeply known, researched, exposed President we’ve ever had.

    And you want to see his college records? Just so Infowars can claim they’re forged or something? There’s a country to run. Obama releasing his school records, which would occupy the news cycles for a couple days, helps with Afghanistan how? Helps the deficit how? Helps the budget how? Helps secure embassies, or borders, how? People criticize Obama for being a self-obsessed celebrity (nothing could be further from the truth), and then they want him to suspend government to talk about his own grades. Don’t make me laugh. The school records are nothing but an excuse to accuse him of hiding something. It’s a shell game.

    Just because *I* think of a thing you haven’t disclosed, doesn’t suddenly mean *you’re* hiding it. It might just mean I’m a nosy busybody who should get a life.

    The SSN. You’re joking, right? Here are the facts — FULLY documented by Orly Taitz, by the way — read her exhibits: Obama at around age 17 applied for an SSN so he could take his first job at Baskin & Robbins in Honolulu. Most American thing in the world. We all did it.

    He was issued a SSN, and he used it the rest of his life. He bought homes, opened bank accounts, filed taxes. Nobody else is associated with that SSN, and no other SSN is associated with Obama. There is no record of that SSN anywhere prior to Obama receiving it. There is no such thing as a “Connecticut” SSN. For a period of time SSA used the first 3 digits as a prefix code indicating a regional association, but it was for internal purposes and did not mean anything about the holder of that number. President Eisenhower, who had never lived in California, had a SSN with a California prefix.

    The SSN does not now “fail” everify. It allegedly comes back with a code that might mean “unknown” but could mean “hidden”. The first time Linda Jordan broke federal law to research the SSN, it was not hidden. But after birthers plastered the number all over the Internet, something changed. Hmmm. I wonder why? Did you ever have your credit card number stolen? And you kept using the card? No — you closed that account and got a new one. Why would the President be any different? We don’t know for sure, but it’s seems perfectly reasonable to me to suspect that he has been issued a new SSN.

    So here’s a question for you: Why are you SO willing to believe — and repeat — these lies about the President?

    [I deleted the duplicate comment. Comments with three links get flagged for moderation by Akismet. I will see if I can change that. RC]

    • It is hard to take anyone seriously who links Alex Jones and tries to debate using long debunked claims. John asked jay vin a good question:

      “So here’s a question for you: Why are you SO willing to believe — and repeat — these lies about the President?”

      • Northland10 says:

        Reality Check :
        John asked jay vin a good question:
        “So here’s a question for you: Why are you SO willing to believe — and repeat — these lies about the President?”

        I too would love to hear an answer to this question.

        • ray vin says:

          And why do you continue to believe the lamestream media when they’ve been caught in lie after lie after lie? It’s because they’re telling you what you want to hear instead of what you need to hear. Keep drinking the kool-aid, and when this country finally takes its last swirl around the drain, don’t come running to me for help. I’ll be all safe and sound because I see what’s coming. He’s running the country in the ground: welfare going through the roof, the assault on the Constitution, Obamacare (and if you think that’s a good idea, you’re actually stupid, whereas I think you’re just against facing reality now), his Cabinet running wild (Holder and Fast and Furious, Black Panthers, Napolitano with releasing detained illegal immigrant criminals). That’s his fault, and if for some reason you don’t think it is, he needs to grow a pair and fire his Cabinet leaders that are acting on their own accord. Jesus, man, where is any leadership from the “most transparent administration in history?” NOT! But you can go back to your standby comment…”It’s all Bush’s fault.” After five years of ineptitude, it’s still Bush’s fault. Heaven help us survive the next 3.5 years. Maybe he’ll continue to vacation a third of every year and not do any more damage. No military experience, no actual private sector business experience, so what do the sheeple of the US do, they elect this clown to the presidency. Poor guy doesn’t have a clue, but you know what, he’s got 51% of the ignorant voters bought off with freebies, so he wins. You wanted him, you got him, and you get credit for pushing the country down the toilet.

          • I just read Ray’s reply, and then I read it again, hoping against hope that I had missed some iota of substance, some logic, some point, some argument supported by reason and fact, something other than chanted buzzwords (“Black Panthers”! Oooh, are ya scared yet?!).

            But alas, there’s none.

            I’ll answer one of the new points (no point answering the points that were already answered, like the ICE releases, since Ray ignored that):

            POTUS Tracker, compiled by The Washington Post, shows that from January 2009 to October 31, 2012, Obama spent all or part of 72 vacation days in a variety of places, mostly Hawaii in the winter and Martha’s Vineyard in the summer. That’s about 10 weeks away in three-and-a-half years, hardly extravagant. Through May 18, according to data from CBS’s Knoller, he also visited Camp David 22 times, spending all or part of 54 days there.


            So your source said a third of every year (assuming you have a source, and didn’t just pull it out of your sphincter), which would be 120 days, times 3.5 years = 420 days vacation. Whereas the truth is 72, so you were only off by 83%.

            I suppose, like with the Indonesia thing, you will fall back on “mostly kidding.” Oh you’re such a kidder. Round these parts, we call that lying.

            My question stands: WHY all the lies?

          • Northland10 says:

            You just recited a list of talking points with no facts or evidence whatsoever. You are blindly following what someone tells you without evidence. How is that different than those you claim follow the “lame stream media” without question? Why are you so willing to accept any claim about the President, but require no verification? Forget about your recycled talking points, what is it truly about this President that makes you hate him so? Be honest. A broad claim of “country going down the drain” without specifics does not answer the question.

            On a side note, do you want him in eligible because you dislike what you think he is doing?

            • ray vin says:

              On the contrary, I don’t hate Obama, but I think he is a horrible President, just like I’ve thought about some Republicans before. You want “facts”, right, then how about these: we’re another $8 TRILLION more in debt now than we were when he took over; unemployment is still at 9%, with 20%+ for blacks, his largest percentage of voters; we have 45 MILLION people on food stamps, even those that have $200 shoes, a cellphone, pets, they smoke, and they drink, but they need help to buy food; Obamacare, in which another 14% of our economy is being usurped by our federal government. As good a job as they’ve done with the post office, social security, our budget, cash for clunkers, Solyndra and other green energy investments…and the list goes on. So now you tell me, what accomplishment does he have to his name? Passing Obamacare? That’s not an accomplishment; that’s a fiasco that will add trillions more to our debt, and that’s according to the CBO, a non-partisan agency. Are these enough facts for you? Can you answer me now that I’ve taken the time to type these up yet again?

      • ray vin plays fast and loose with the facts. I checked the latest BLS numbers (for January 13) and the unemployment rate is 7.9% overall and 13.8% for African Americans. See BTW, private sector jobs grew for the 35th straight month in January.

        I will address the ICE detainee releases when I have time. This is even more overblown than the Benghazi FoxNews manufactured bullshit.

          • ray vin says:

            LOL! You believe those stats? Those that come from the administrations lackies. Check any reputable news source, liberal or conservative, and you’ll see between the lines. Quit being a robot and question the first thing you hear. CNN just the other day was talking about how unemployment among blacks was over 20%. Yes, I could link to it, but I’m tired of providing you a meal. Learn to do it yourself, and you’ll be able to eat for the rest of your life.

        • ray vin says:

          Sir, seriously, you trust the BLS? It’s stacked with administration lackies. Look at any news source, even the liberal ones, and you’ll get the real rate. More than anything, I wish the American people would question the first thing they hear. I’m more conservative than liberal, but I vote for who I think will do best for our country. In my opinion, Obama is horrible. And if you think Benghazi is a farce, you’re sadly mistaken. I know more details about that than I’m allowed to talk about. Just today, the State department turned over 100 pages of survivors statements…that’s right, 100 pages. You know how much was redacted? All 100 pages. Why? Why can’t Congress see what really happened. There is more to this story than anyone can know right now, and it will be embarrassing to all Americans, much more so for the administration. You don’t let Americans die when you can do something about it. Don’t close your eyes to this, or turn a deaf ear. Get past your partisan thoughts and look into this.

        • ray vin said

          CNN just the other day was talking about how unemployment among blacks was over 20%. Yes, I could link to it, but I’m tired of providing you a meal. Learn to do it yourself, and you’ll be able to eat for the rest of your life.

          Where do you think CNN gets their statistics? Got caught fibbing again didn’t you ray vin, Mr. Great Debater. 😆

          • Northland10 says:

            Is Ray quoting an old article? Since he does not back up his claim with an actual article source, it’s hard to tell. His refusal to do such speaks volumes.

        • Northland10 says:

          Is this your CNN article from February 6?

          Oh wait, it says 7.9% nationally and 13.8% for blacks? Would you like to prove you are not fibbing about the CNN numbers?

        • Thanks for the link Northland10. I believe those are exactly the numbers I found on the BLS report, which is of course the source for the CNN report. I searched a few seconds today for the CNN article but decided that frankly ray vin wasn’t worth the bother.

        • Northland10 says:

          I was looking forward to Ray showing me how I had the wrong figures from CNN. He’s missing a perfect opportunity to prove me wrong. He can also show me how a bureau with a deputy commissioner who has been through 4 presidents is an administration lackey.

  18. Dingbat Remover says:

    [Dingbat was removed. I guess he didn’t read my comment policy.]

  19. I think ray vin is just lazy. He regurgitates a bunch of RWNJ and birther talking points without providing back up to anything. So far he has not proved he is worthy of debate.

    By the way ray vin, paragraphs are allowed here. I know Birthers seem to hate them.

    • ray vin says:

      True to form, name-calling as your argument. Thanks for proving my point. I’ll be glad to make my paragraphs shorter for you. Want me to add pictures to, so that it might be easier for you to comprehend?
      Any time you want to go head to head in an intelligence contest, bring it.

      • The comment about paragraphs was meant to be constructive criticism. It is my observation that Birthers tend to write in page long streams of consciousness without paragraphs.

        A good place to start would be to quit quoting discredited sources and repeating lies. For example, admitting that President Obama is eligible, was duly elected, is your rightful Commander in Chief, and is not a “usurper” would be an excellent start. If you cannot admit that I would suggest you ought to leave the military as your loyalty to the United States and our system of government is in question.

  20. Larry Adler says:

    The narrow issue concerned the SCOTUS decision that the requested stay certification of CA electoral would not be granted review. The Constitution provides for a “Supreme Court” whose decisions are controlling. All of the other posted concerns about Obama’s performance in office don’t enter into the narrow issue.

    • RoadScholar says:

      No. They don’t. I never got anywhere convincing the Birfers they should spend their energies making sensible, credible policy-based criticisms of Obama instead of blowing off mass quantities of time and treasure on the eligibility thing.

      You just can’t give some people helpful advice.

      • ray vin says:

        If this country adheres to more of your “advice,” we’ll never recover. Probably won’t now. Hopefully, someone with some business experience, and preferably some military experience, can earn the position again instead of people that have no clue.

        • So do you affirm that President Obama is your rightful and legitimate Commander in Chief?

          • ray vin says:

            I have to. He’s my Commander in Chief. That’s why I’d really like to see his college transcripts. At the very least, he lied about his demographic information, perhaps to get preferential treatment to get into college. If it were to say he’s Kenya, coupled with his literary agent claiming that he’s Kenyan for almost 20 years, would that make you finally open your eyes?

        • You just described George W. Bush. That worked well didn’t it? However, I can’t say he earned the position. He was appointed by a 5-4 vote.

          The literary agent said she made a mistake:

          “This was nothing more than a fact-checking error by me — an agency assistant at the time,” Miriam Goderich, who worked for the literary agency Acton & Dystel, told Yahoo News. “There was never any information given to us by Obama in any of his correspondence or other communications suggesting in any way that he was born in Kenya and not Hawaii.”

          College records? You have no evidence to support that Obama ever misrepresented his background in any way. Let it go.

  21. For our friend ray vin:–business.html

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Employers stepped up hiring in February, pushing the unemployment rate to a four year-low, suggesting the economy is gaining traction despite the blow from higher taxes and deep government spending cuts.

    Nonfarm payrolls surged 236,000 jobs last month, the Labor Department said on Friday, handily beating economists’ expectations for a gain of 160,000.

    The jobless rate fell to 7.7 percent, the lowest since December 2008, from 7.9 percent in January. The decline reflected gains in employment as well as people leaving the labor force.

    The upbeat report was another sign of the economy’s fundamental health, which has already propelled the Dow Jones industrial average to record highs.

    ray vin is correct. I just don’t know how we will survive until we can get a president like George W. Bush back. 😆

  22. Plutodog says:

    So it’s hard to keep score here. How many claims has Ray made so far that he has failed to prove? And how many of his claims have been shot down without him acknowledging or factually disputing? I know birthers love to slide past the “facts” proved false only to bring them up again later as if they were not. (Is that the name-calling Ray is complaining about?

  23. greybuscat says:

    Are you people unfamiliar with what an internet troll is?

    Maybe Ray Vin was legit, but by his 8th or 9th post, you were allowing him to completely dictate your comments section.

    Give people the benefit of the doubt as long as they deserve it, and not a second longer.

  24. Babji Karri says:

    It’s generally accepted by psychologists that the right wing viewpoint is actually a mental illness.

    It is also known that this manifests itself as an inability to see other viewpoints, a strong feeling of unjustified victim-hood. a willingness to believe in conspiracy theories and a hatred of anyone and anything that does not conform to their own deluded thinking.We may look at these people and think they are clowns,but we have to remember that Hitler and Mussolini were every bit as clownish as say Bachmann or Palin.

    It’s my honest opinion that the next major world conflagration will be brought about by a neocon teabagger bible bashing Republican POTUS.There are any number of candidates out there in the Republican ranks,just take your pick.The GOP is no longer a broad church, if it ever were,but the more right wing it gets, the less dissension there seems to be within it.

    Ray Vin seems to think that being in the armed forces gives someone a unique qualification to lead a country,not really,it just gives you a unique ability to make war.It is wisdom and compassion that gives you the ability to lead,and whilst it is not exactly abundant within the ranks of the Democrats,there is not an iota of it to be found within the GOP indeed the exact opposite is everywhere,stupidity and bigotry,and it is reflected in their supporters.

    If Obama was to leave the country with a budget surplus of 10 trillion dollars, a 1% unemployment rate,make a true and lasting peace with all it’s enemies,and abolish income tax,the right wing would still ask ‘yeah,but what has he done about immigration?’ or some other BS.You see the problem is not Obama’s policies, no, not really, their problem with Obama is that he is black, pure and simple. They feel emasculated because the most important man in the whole world is black.

    You see,they know the obstacles they have erected to keep blacks down,that’s why they believe he must have cheated somehow,but they can’t admit it.It’s a conundrum,how can we prove he cheated without admitting that we cheat to keep blacks down?

    • Ray Vincent says:

      There’s nothing to say but you’re an idiot. Funny, you didn’t mention Benghazi, IRS spying, NSA spying, Obamacare garbage, Fast and Furious, no budget passed while he’s in office, failure to enforce the laws of the land such as DOMA and illegal immigration (yes, he has to do this whether he agrees with them or not), and the list goes on. But you’re right, Obama is perfect, nothing wrong there at all. Just answer one question…what color is the sky in your world?

  25. Ray Vincent says:

    As for everyone else out there thinking I disappeared, I just don’t have the time to waste dialoging with you about things that any normal person would see as a problem with this “most transparent” administration in history. Since it’s been awhile, how’s that Obamacare treating you?

    • So is this the same Ray Vincent who was going to “destroy us with facts” but his only effort was to link to nut-bag Alex Jones Info Wars site?

      • Ray Vincent says:

        So the fact that Alex Jones links to real stories such as Benghazi, Obamacare, Black Panthers, etc. makes him a nut-bag? I can find the same stories on your favorite Communist News Network, but they’re no nut-bags are they? No, in your opinion, they’re doing a bang-up job being fair and impartial, aren’t they? So, what facts do you want on Obamacare? I’m sure I can find some on this magnificent power grab for you, just in case you’ve been under a rock for a few weeks. Or Benghazi, what can I provide for you there? Or maybe you want some facts or figures on this administration blowing through the debt ceiling again. Or better yet, let’s focus on some even better news, such as the .1% decrease in black unemployment…WOO-HOO! Great job! So, which one do I actually need to provide more information on for you, bud?

    • W. Kevin Vicklund says:

      Obamacare is treating me great! A good friend of mine now has a health care plan that covers his medical needs, and it costs several thousands of dollars less per year than his previous, crappy insurance. My boss is negotiating right now to get us a better health plan through the exchanges (though we can keep our current plan if he can’t find a better one).

      I’m glad my governor decided not to sabotage the system and allowed a state exchange to be set up.

      • Ray Vincent says:

        Well, I guess hell just froze over, but I seriously doubt you’re really this fortunate. Maybe you should be the face of this train wreck legislation…

        • Maybe you should get your news from sources other than FauxNews, Sludge, Rush Limpballs, Hanutty, and NewsMin – and Alex Jones of course.

          • Ray Vincent says:

            What does the place I get news from have to do with any of the above conversation? But I’ll tell you what, let’s both take a look at what, perhaps Communist News Network, and see what they say about Obamacare. Not even they can put lipstick on this pig, and the best part about it is, you know it. You just don’t want to believe it. It’s all over every media outlet, but you’re blind to Lord and Savior Barack Obama. This bill is awful, and the only reason is wasn’t declared unconstitutional was because the NSA got tapes or pics of Roberts in a dress or something…either that, or they threatened to kill him.

        • Where you get news is completely pertinent. You said hell froze over, which means you believe it would be AN EXTREMELY RARE EVENT for someone to have a beneficial response to the ACA. But where would you get this belief? You didn’t make it up out of thin air. You heard it somewhere. And you have never heard anyone contradict it. Ergo, get your head out of the collective ass of Limbaugh, Faux, etc., like RC said.

          You know who’s going to have the BEST response to the ACA? SICK PEOPLE.

          I’ll give you another data point. I just got laid off three days ago, from more than 20 years of continuous silver/gold-level employer-provided or employer-subsidized health insurance. And if this had happened without the ACA being rolled out, I would be stuck. As it is, I have the normal worry of job-hunting and finances. But I no longer have the additional worry that with pre-existing conditions I would be utterly unable to GET health insurance, or ONLY able to afford crap “insurance” where I would be immediately bankrupted and homeless if I was in a serious accident or had a catastrophic illness.

          I have COBRA through my old job for a month or two, and then I can sign up for decent, proper, affordable insurance. Not cheap, but not outrageously expensive either. Without subsidies, in my state, it looks like in the range of $550/mo, for me and my wife. And they can’t refuse us or drop us. That is PEACE OF MIND, brother.

          No way is Faux telling the true story of millions of Americans like me. So you’re missing out on an important part of the total picture.

          • Ray Vincent says:

            Sir, you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that CNN, MSNBC, and just this morning, NPR, are running stories about this trainwreck legislation. Great, you, and a few thousand others might be getting insurance for cheaper rates than COBRA. I’m happy for you, but for every one of you, there are thousands that have gotten screwed. Personally, I have a friend that was paying $528 per month for insurance. That rate has now blown up to almost $1,200 per month, but he now can rest assured that if his vagina hurts, he can see a gynecologist. On another note, my aunt’s boyfriend’s mom was totally canceled, didn’t even have a chance to accept a higher rate. And, oh yeah, she has cancer. Now what is she going to do – she can’t sign up because the stupid site is down or not working properly.

            You really think the government should be telling people where to go to get insurance and what insurance they have to have? Really? Much less should they be running another 14% of our economy. Their track record is so wonderful with the post office (lost $15.9 BILLION last year!!!), Medicare & Medicaid bankrupt, Social Security bankrupt, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae bankrupt, cash for clunkers, green energy policy and support for Solyndra and a host of other bankrupt companies, and the list goes on. You want these guys to be running healthcare? No wonder our country keeps digging a deeper hole with people thinking this is okay.

            And don’t forget another 16,000 IRS agents running the program. Again, WTF are we allowing to happen. Bottom line is that taking money from healthy people to subsidize older sick people is just another form of socialism, plain and simple. Just another form of wealth redistribution.

            So, John, good on you for getting health insurance that may meet your needs, and probably some you don’t need. There are other millions that have been dropped that are taking it in the ass for you.

  26. And you sir apparently refuse to acknowledge that there is a diference between “legislation” and a “website.” You apparently refuse to acknowledge that BECAUSE conservatives insisted on a continuing private market for health insurance, the Obama reforms COMPROMISED and followed that guidance — therefore there is NO SUCH THING as “government telling people where to go to get insurance and what kind they have to have.” Really? On what planet? The government “running” health care? Golly, you are really drunk on the koolaid.

    Your aunt’s boyfriend’s mom can call if the website doesn’t work. Or go to the exchange website for her state, rather than the feds. You know what she’ll find? Policies sold BY PRIVATE INSURERS. Hmmm, you mean Obamacare is not even a government-run healthcare system???? Golly. What a shock.

    Does she know how to use a phone? Usually there are 10 digits, you press them in order, then talk into the little microphone. I know it’s a high bar for some people.

    • Ray Vincent says:

      Your ignorance would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad and scary knowing that there are millions more people just like you in our once great country that actually don’t know any better than to vote someone as incompetent as Obama into office. Please notice I said ignorant – I will not resort to name-calling – ignorance is just not knowing any better.

      There are no less than a dozen stories right now (I just checked again), many on your beloved liberal news sites, decrying the problems of Obamacare. You think it’s just me, John? What color is the sky in your world? The government is running this, they are going to penalize Americans if they don’t buy it, yada yada yada. WAKE UP, MAN! Jesus, I can’t believe that you’re okay with this.

      I’ve wasted enough time on you and your ignorant banter. You’re getting insurance that you like (at least you think you are, and perceptions are everything) – good for you. Just think about the hundreds of thousands of college students that are being canceled from their less expensive plans and now must enroll in a higher cost plan to subsidize your “wonderul health insurance.” BTW, that’s a story on CNN, one your favorites, I’m sure.

      And you don’t think the lady with cancer is trying to get insurance? SHE…CAN’T…GET…THROUGH!!! Did I type slow enough for you? And on CNN and MSNBC, there are a few stories about Dems heading for the hills for swallowing Obama’s lies about this plan. I just hope real American patriots remember this during the elections. We need honest, hard-working people in office, not just another party Democrat or Republican.

      So again, John, enjoy your “new” insurance plan from a “private” insurer. I just wonder why if it’s truly private, the government needed to get involved at all…hmmm. Other people are helping you pay for it.

      • W. Kevin Vicklund says:

        Of course she can’t get through. After all, she lives in a state where her Republican governor deliberately sabotaged the program. If all these Republican governors hadn’t deliberately sabotaged the system, forcing the federal system to cover 3 times as much traffic than it was originally designed for (and exponentially increasing the complexity of the system), it would have gone much smoother. Not to mention a large number of insurance companies getting caught with their pants down when they placed a losing bet on the Supreme Court striking the PPACA down.

        If you want to look at someone to blame, you need look no further than the people doing everything they can to destroy the system.

        • Ray vincent says:

          Riiiggghhhttt, Kev, right. I guess all 50 states have Republican governors then? Or is it someone else’s fault in Dem controlled states? Couldn’t possibly be King Obama’s fault, could it?

          • The truth is often tedious, I know, but try this:

            1) A lot depends on who developed the websites in each State. Kentucky’s, a reddish State, works well, and one blue State’s (Oregon’s?) has been a disaster. It isn’t an ideology thing, it’s coding.

            2) Romneycare’s rollout was proportionally just as glitchy at the rollout. It eventually worked fine.

            3) The Federal site projected having to cover a dozen or so States; they ended up with three times as many.

            4) The boss ain’t overseeing website development personally. But he did give the “the buck stops here” speech, several times. Should some heads roll because of the trouble? Sure, maybe.

            5) This needs to be one of the most complex sites ever created, due to the large number of “look-ups” the main site has to do, interfacing with agencies whose computer systems are almost certainly not coded the same. I was a programmer when triceratops roamed the land, but I know enough to see that it has to be a nightmare making one site “speak” to all the others.

            6) Saying “King” or “Messiah” connected with Obama pegs you as a snarker, not a thinker. Nobody on the left uses that language, or thinks of him that way. Or maybe that’s another way of stating the concept of the “Unitary Executive” Karl Rove and Dick Cheney were so fond of? Hmmm?

            Face it, what you really want is for Republican Presidents to have dictatorial powers, and for Democratic Presidents to have no powers whatsoever. Expensive overseas trips? Fine for Rs, not for Ds. Feet on the desk? Fine for Rs, not for Ds. Advisers nicknamed czars? Fine for Rs, not for Ds. Executive orders? Fine for Rs, not for Ds.

            Obama’s doing something? That proves he’s evil. Doing the opposite? That proves he’s evil. Doing neither one? That proves he’s evil.

            We get it. Blah blah woof woof. Tell it to the hand.

            • Ray Vincent says:

              You’re on a sinking ship, Mr. Brown, and it’s nobody’s fault but the Dems. We passed, and now that we finally know what’s in it, it sucks. Blame the Repubs all you want – this is Obama’s baby, and it’s ugly. As for me, I think we need to run the whole of DC out of there and start over, but that’s just me, I guess. Good luck with this garbage.

          • Northland10 says:

            Your US Government is brought to you today by the American voters. They had a chance to elect different people to DC. They elected who they elected. Deal with it.

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