How did AP photographer J. Scott Applewhite photograph the copy of the Obama LFBC?

Commenter Hermitian has made various and conflicting claims about the photo taken by AP  photographer J. Scott Applewhite on the morning of April 27, 2011 just after President Obama’s Press Secretary Jay Carney handed out copies of the newly obtained Obama Hawaiian long form birth certificate. The copy was part of a packet that also contained a copy of the short form previously released, the request letter sent by President Obama’s attorney, and the response letter from the Hawaii Department of Health.

Hermitian denied that the photo was of the press handout and denied it could have been taken with a handheld camera.

BirthCertificateHighResolutionOCT

Scott Applewhite’s Photo of the press handout on April 27, 2011

In this side splittingly funny comment Hermitian said:

RC can keep spreading mustard on his bolony (bologna) but I don’t buy any of his blather. As for his latest lunacy we can obliterate his claim in a flash.

We know that the two certified copies were purported to be dry copies of the original long-form birth certificate made on basket-weave safety paper. by the HDOH.

From other information, we know that this paper would have been Simpson 24 lb stock. The Simpson paper has the basket-weave pattern on both sides of the sheet. So there is no way that the copy of the Obama short-form certificate would be visible through this heavyweight basket-weave paper. Consequently, we know that the top sheet of the reporter’s handout stack was itself a copy.

Secondly, because he is a professional, there is no way that Applewhite would agree to photograph a copy when the original was in the room. And we can be positive that he would not have agreed to photograph a copy while a reporter photographed the original in B&W with her cell phone. He would only do so if ordered to by his management at the AP. Even then a professional would probably have refused and then called his union steward to get his job back.

John Woodman was one of the first Birther debunkers to realize how problematic the AP photo was to the group of bumbling Birthers pretending to be image and computer experts and doing amateur hour analyses of the LFBC PDF file posted later the same day of the release of the LFBC on the White House web site. Woodman saw that the PDF could not be the source of the AP image? Why? Because the AP image contains details not visible on the PDF. One excellent example of the difference in the images is to look at the portion of the Registrar’s stamp where the Birther “experts” claimed that the world “THE” is misspelled and is “TXE” Here we see the difference:

WH LFBC: (Images courtesy of Obama Conspiracy Theories blog from the article “TXE”: it bears repeating)

image

AP JPG:

Detail from Obama's long-form birth certificate

The AP image is just even more conclusive proof that the LFBC PDF is not an original “forgery”. If you believe that then you must believe that the AP JPG was also forged independently. The idea that someone unnamed generated multiple independent forgeries is of course insane. Only someone with no grip on reality would make such a moronic claim. The alternative theory  would be that the AP document was forged and it was the source of the LFBC PDF scanned file. That of course would make all the analysis of the PDF “layers” null and void. And then there is the Savannah Guthrie photo of course …

So what did Scott Applewhite photograph on that morning almost three years ago? What kind of camera did he use? What about that bluish tint to the image?

I decided that the way to obtain answers to those questions was obvious. Why not ask Mr. Applewhite?

I just made contact with Mr. Applewhite who still works for AP but now covers Congress instead of the White House. He remembered that morning very well. He graciously answered my questions:

You ask about the president’s birth certificate photo. I went to the White House regularly for many years but now concentrate on Congress. I certainly remember that day when the White House press office was handing out copies of the President Obama’s birth record in order to dispel the controversy and argument about his true nationality. Since I don’t have a macro setup or lens, I’m sure I just copied the sheet of paper handed out by the White House by using my Canon EOS 1D Mark IV at the time, either using a 24-70 zoom or a 50mm lens. And yes, handheld.

This wasn’t art. It was early in the day and I was simply making a quick copy of the document to transmit to the AP’s Washington Bureau — it would have been their job then for the reporters to use their resources to validate or question the information. My cameras are pretty high resolution — generally about 40 to 50mb every time I push the button.  This time however I was just a human xerox machine. As for the bluish tint, not sure, since I was simply relaying the information on the document, I may not have done the usual color correction which is normal to adjust proper skin tones, etc.

As I recall, it wasn’t too long after copying the document that President Obama actually appeared in the Press Room to personally address the issue.

It is easy to look up the specs for the camera Mr. Applewhite used. It is a 16 Megapixel model. And honestly, I didn’t solicit his reference to being a “human xerox”. That was his own wording.

So there you have it. Just as we have tried to tell Hermtian for days Scott Applewhite snapped a handheld photo of the copy of the LFBC from the handout at the press briefing. Mystery solved. Hermitian is wrong once again and the sun will set in the west soon after I write these words.

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77 Responses to How did AP photographer J. Scott Applewhite photograph the copy of the Obama LFBC?

  1. gsgs says:

    pity that noone of the Birthers or Obots ever got one of these press-layouts.
    Has it a halo already ?

    I remember 3 hires versions, which I named ap(applegate),h2(obamafile),12a(123-news,Vogt) and several others of lower resolution.(bw,wp,…od,…no reply from od to my email)
    Were the 3 hires all copies from the Applegate photo ?

    they have chromatic aberration and a slight distortion in that file, so it couldn’t be a scan

  2. Whatever4 says:

    I LOVE it when obots go to the source!

    • Thanks W4. I decided after reading all of Henry’s nonsense claims to just go to the source and get the answers. As was the case with all the Birther speculation before the release of the LFBC that it didn’t exist the simple answer is that there is no forgery, there is no conspiracy, President Obama was born in Hawaii end of story.

  3. NBC says:

    Since I don’t have a macro setup or lens, I’m sure I just copied the sheet of paper handed out by the White House by using my Canon EOS 1D Mark IV at the time, either using a 24-70 zoom or a 50mm lens. And yes, handheld.

    ROTFL… Poor Hermitian… He could have done all this research himself and instead he decided on making foolish claims and speculations that appear to be at odds with what Mr Applewhite remembers.

    Job well done RC… Glad to have been of help as well 😉

  4. NBC says:

    they have chromatic aberration and a slight distortion in that file, so it couldn’t be a scan

    Tell that to Hermie 🙂

  5. Tell that to Hermie 🙂

    Yeah, he must have missed those things when he was lapping us. 😆 Just like when he calculated the difference in number of pixels of two images using the wrong equation.

  6. Northland10 says:

    The bluish tint may be due to the large amounts of blue in the room. It has a blue lit background, blue chairs, blue monitors, blue signs, and even blue equipment cabinets. The place is just “swimming” in blue.

  7. Northland10

    You make a good point and that is a logical explanation.

  8. NBC says:

    Yeah, he must have missed those things when he was lapping us. 😆

    He was running in the wrong direction 🙂

  9. Hektor says:

    Oh come on RC, going to the source is completely unfair. How is one supposed to come up with all sorts of outlandish theories about what happened at that press conference and make baseless speculations about how an image came to be, if you just go to the primary source and ask him?

    Ugh. Now I’m going to have to move the goal posts again and demand that Mr. Applewhite testify under oath at some proceeding that only exists in my imagination. He hasn’t done that, now has he? Then all my original baseless speculation must be correct then!

  10. gsgs says:

    when I go to the source, the “open government” at WH won’t reply.
    They could have mentioned the Xerox in April 2011, when they saw all the discussion in internet

  11. gsgs says:

    and how would the camera – just looking at the document-
    have known that there is so much blue in the room ??
    And if, wouldn’t the reasonable reaction by any reasonable camera have been
    to compensate by reducing blue ?
    My camera has a setting “warm” and “cold” , warm just adds red and cold adds blue

  12. W. Kevin Vicklund says:

    and how would the camera – just looking at the document-
    have known that there is so much blue in the room ??
    And if, wouldn’t the reasonable reaction by any reasonable camera have been
    to compensate by reducing blue ?
    My camera has a setting “warm” and “cold” , warm just adds red and cold adds blue

    If there were a lot of blue objects in the room, that would cause the page itself to look a bit blue. So if the camera didn’t “know there was so much blue in the room” it wouldn’t have corrected, thus accounting for the blueness of the paper.

  13. gsgs says:

    well, most of the light probably came from the camera-flash,
    much more than from
    blue-mirroring by glasses or such

    page 194 in the manual of the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/13504.pdf

    B/W cool tone : prints in black and white with cool, bluish blacks

    page 209 : blue bias setting

    white balance (“WB”) , color temperature setting page 78

  14. when I go to the source, the “open government” at WH won’t reply.
    They could have mentioned the Xerox in April 2011, when they saw all the discussion in internet

    First, I doubt if they would reply to a non-US citizen. Secondly, there is no proof anyone in the White House was aware or is aware to this day of a controversy that exists only on the far fringes of the Internet.

  15. gsgs says:

    actually, my sister had that problem. All her pics were bluish.
    Finally we found the camera-setting that did it and could
    remove the blue.

  16. gsgs says:

    but … Obama is in the White House (sometimes)
    He is aware. All the law suits etc.
    Also, I told them
    How did they know, that I’m not American ? No birth certificate was included.
    And if, it could have been a forgery ….

  17. gsgs says:

    and why didn’t the birthers, Corsi,Zullo,Vogt etc. ask the WH or Applegate or Guthrie or

  18. and why didn’t the birthers, Corsi,Zullo,Vogt etc. ask the WH or Applegate or Guthrie or

    or Henry Blake ….

    Maybe as I did they knew what the answer most certainly would be, except they didn’t want to hear it?

  19. gorefan says:

    How about there was fluorescent lighting.

    “You might have noticed when examining shots after taking them that at times images can come out with an orange, blue, yellow etc look to them – despite the fact that to the naked eye the scene looked quite normal. The reason for this is that images different sources of light have a different ‘color’ (or temperature) to them. Fluorescent lighting adds a bluish cast to photos whereas tungsten (incandescent/bulbs) lights add a yellowish tinge to photos.”

    http://digital-photography-school.com/introduction-to-white-balance/

  20. NBC says:

    I presume that our friend Hermitian has either disappeared with his tail between his legs or refuses to take responsibility for his foolish claims.
    Too bad, he made such a great contribution to destroying the CCP’s position.

    • Henry bailed as you would have expected him to do. He had long since gone beyond being a useful idiot. If he doesn’t post an apology for lying I will can him for good tomorrow.

  21. NBC says:

    Henry bailed as you would have expected him to do. He had long since gone beyond being a useful idiot. If he doesn’t post an apology for lying I will can him for good tomorrow.

    His excellent contributions that add to the demise of the CCP’s arguments will be missed. 😉

  22. Northland10 says:

    I said: The place is just “swimming” in blue.

    For those who may have missed my extra little comment (I was on my iPad where it is time consuming to toss in a link), here is an earlier view of the press room, which is also “swimming” in blue.

  23. Northland10 says:

    I give up.. just copy and paste my link above. Sigh.

    [RC: I fixed it.)]

  24. It really was swimming in blue. 😆

    I believe we may consider the great Birther mystery of the “blue background” as having been solved. The room really has lots of blue. Blue curtains, blue carpet, and blue chairs. Nice job Noirthland10.

  25. gsgs says:

    it’s absurd, birthers will laught at it … and make a comedy

    the bluebots … Obama’s Democratic destiny by birth certificate …AP biased …

  26. Did gsgs make a joke?

  27. ramboike says:

    April 11, 2014 at 5:20 pm- Whatever4 says: I LOVE it when obots go to the source!

    April 11, 2014 at 5:42 pm- Reality Check says:Thanks W4. I decided after reading all of Henry’s nonsense claims to just go to the source and get the answers.

    ike- RC has snookered Whatever4 with a false illusion. None of you Obots have ever seen the original source from which the copy is alleged to be reproduced from. I’ve had a number of Obots & Birthers tell me there is noway to tell if a copy is fake or not without an examination of the original source. Also had some Obots & Birthers take it a step further: No amount of inspection of a reproduction can determine if the original source itself is genuine or a forgery.

    The rest of RC’s statement: As was the case with all the Birther speculation before the release of the LFBC that it didn’t exist the simple answer is that there is no forgery, there is no conspiracy, President Obama was born in Hawaii end of story.

    ike- The truth is RC is the one speculating in his mind and wants that to be true without ever providing an original record, alleged to be on file, for examination. So playing make believe is still carrying the day.

  28. Rambo said:

    The truth is RC is the one speculating in his mind and wants that to be true without ever providing an original record, alleged to be on file, for examination. So playing make believe is still carrying the day.

    Speaking of fractal wrongness… I will quote what Foggy told the morons at WOBC: “The ultimate authority on the validity of a government issued document is the government that issued it.” That and the law is something you will never get around. Hawaii has provided President Obama at least a dozen certified copies of his birth certificate (OFA campaign said they ordered 10 in 2007 and then the President’s attorney obtained two more in 2011). Every single one would be recognized as valid for any purpose for which a birth certificate would be needed. In addition Hawaii provided at least two independent letters of verification that are equally valid for legally determining place of birth. .

    Can you cite a single court case where a judge required a state to allow an independent inspection of its original records? I thought so. It isn’t going to happen in this case. Hawaii is not going to let any idiots to come traipsing though their records repository. They would be violating their own laws if they did.

  29. NBC says:

    The rest of RC’s statement: As was the case with all the Birther speculation before the release of the LFBC that it didn’t exist the simple answer is that there is no forgery, there is no conspiracy, President Obama was born in Hawaii end of story.

    Yes, that is the end of the story. Your point?

  30. ramboike says:

    RC,
    So the final disposition of all the evidence is based on copies or statements of the original records, alleged to be on file, that are being kept hidden?

    I can cite how a court order resulted in forcing a legal sitting president & the Pentagon to end up releasing more than 700 files, records, and documents during 2004.

    You do have a sense of humor: “…traipsing though their records repository.”

    NBC, I’m sorry, but because of what you did on the Aitkin Bible, your opinions have been marked “destination dumpster”, and everything you’ve said on this issue with the copier is now suspect. ~grin~

  31. RC,
    So the final disposition of all the evidence is based on copies or statements of the original records, alleged to be on file, that are being kept hidden?

    By your definition every one of the hundreds of millions of original birth records on file in the United States are being “hidden”. This is an absurd claim that is entirely a Birther invention from sheer desperation following the release of the LFBC. Three years of whining ‘show the birth certificate” were shot to hell.

    I can cite how a court order resulted in forcing a legal sitting president & the Pentagon to end up releasing more than 700 files, records, and documents during 2004.

    What was released? Originals or copies? You still do not grasp the concept of a certified document do you?

    You do have a sense of humor: “…traipsing though their records repository.”

    Well that is exactly what Dumb and Dumber (Irey and Vogt) thought they were going to do with their magnifying glasses in hand.

    NBC, I’m sorry, but because of what you did on the Aitkin Bible, your opinions have been marked “destination dumpster”, and everything you’ve said on this issue with the copier is now suspect. ~grin~

    NBC can answer but I am not surprised you are ignoring it since he completely eviscerated you on the Aiken Bible myth you perpetrated.

  32. W. Kevin Vicklund says:

    I can cite how a court order resulted in forcing a legal sitting president & the Pentagon to end up releasing more than 700 files, records, and documents during 2004.

    Really? You have a cite that these 700+ documents were only released after a court order?

  33. ramboike says:

    This is great! The fish are biting again.

    W. Kevin Vicklund,
    My apology for wording that wrong. I should of looked it up 1st before making that statement. Going on memory sometimes doesn’t work. The facts per Wikipedia:

    2/13/04- Bush released more than 700 additional pages of documents. (he had already released some in 2000)

    6/22/04- Associated Press sues the DOD & Air Force to get all of Bush’s records released.

    Now Under court order:
    9/24/04- The Pentagon released more documents (no number specified). 9/29/04- White House releases a document. 10/5/04- TANG releases 2 documents. 10/14/04- TNG- releases 31 pages of documents.

    Compare that to Obama who has released 0 (zero). Court order for Bush, but not for Obama. Double standard?

    RC,
    For my 1st question you brought the strawman. Try answering the question.

    Based on how the military reported it I would say what they were finding was original. I have no idea if copies were made.

    NBC has himself in a pickle. He knows the truth but won’t admit it. I had to do it, now it’s his turn. Lmao.

    Ps: Please, when you all bring the red herrings & strawman at least try to make it look convincing.

  34. Rambo

    The question was whether a court had ever ordered that a state open its original vital records for inspection in a case where the authenticity of a purported state issued document had been questioned when the state already verified it. You answered with a completely unrelated case where a court ordered the Bush administration to release documents that it had claimed were privileged. You can bet that what was supplied in the DoD case was copies and not the original documents of course. Either you failed to understand the question or you are dishonest. Or both.

  35. It is amazing how similar all the Birthers arguments are. They all use the same dishonest techniques. Hermitian and Rambo are classic examples of those who when they cannot answer the question answer a completely unrelated question and claim victory. it is laughable but understandable when you are trying to push a lie.

  36. ramboike says:

    RC

    Whatever4 said “I LOVE it when obots go to the source!”

    You said “Thanks W4. I decided after reading all of Henry’s nonsense claims to just go to the source and get the answers.”

    Hektor said “Oh come on RC, going to the source is completely unfair.”

    And I’m saying none of you have ever been to the source.

    What you presented from Foggy is a Strawman in this instance. It does not change up the fact that none of you have ever seen (been to) the original source you have argued over with Hermitian. You have been told what was released in April of 2011 was a copy or abstract of what was on file. That copy or abstract does not say from an original record.

    The court-ordered example I gave is not unrelated. If a court can order a sitting president who served his country via the military, the Pentagon, Dept of Defense, the Air force, and other government departments to release records then surely a court can order the release of a birth certificate, hospital & college records from someone who has created a major controversy by creating a belief since grade school he was foreign born.

  37. Rambo

    You still don’t understand the Full Faith and Credit Clause nor the difference between public and private records do you? Of course this entire conversation is wildly hypothetical anyway.

  38. Hektor says:

    Technically, the source would actually be the birth itself. Not even video of that would stop the birther nonsense (see e.g. two citizen parents, Indonesian adoption).

    Though Rambo is wrong about the President creating a “major controversy,” even if this were so, it’s not just the President saying that he was born in Hawaii. It’s the state of Hawaii saying so and has said so repeatedly. That birthers disagree is not proof of anything.

    As for the mysterious case, I’m sure what happened was a bunch of moon landing conspiracists were allowed to waltz into the Pentagon and examine the demanded original documents without restriction.

  39. W. Kevin Vicklund says:

    RamboIke is right. If a court can order a sitting president who served his country via the military, the Pentagon, Dept of Defense, the Air force, and other government departments to release his military records under a specific provision of the Freedom of Information Act, then surely a court can order the release of another sitting president’s military records under that same provision of the FOIA. In fact, I believe all of the current president’s military records, prior to his inauguration, have been released.

    That, of course, doesn’t help in the cause to get someone’s -anyone’s- birth certificate, hospital & college records, which are not covered by any provision of the FOIA.

  40. ramboike says:

    RC, Hektor, Vicklund

    Do any of you understand what the terms red herring & strawman are in an argument?

    I’m stating none of you have ever physically seen the original source for the copy or copies you’ve been arguing about for months with Hermitian. You are reduced to taking someone else’s word that it exist and that it is an original birth record from 1961.

    RC started this thread with “…Jay Carney handed out copies…” Copies are never the original source.

    All 3 of you have dropped in a red herring which is irrelevant to what I’m pointing out: No original source has ever been seen by any of you. Then with the red herring you creating a strawman argument to give the illusion you’ve debunk my statement.

    Full Faith and Credit Clause, “state of Hawaii saying so”, and “covered by any provision of the FOIA” is immaterial to me stating you’ve never seen the original source.

    The only evidence any of you have ever seen is something that is alleged to have been produced from an original record that is being kept hidden. Hidden as in not accessible to view or impossible to see. No Obot, and I’ve asked many, has been able to provide me with any original records Obama has released.

    As for the Bush records I believe the court ordered ones were original. That is based on what I remember reading about those examining them had to go to a certain place (forget where) to see them. They weren’t released to the public.

  41. W. Kevin Vicklund says:

    Keep erecting those strawmen, Rambo, and we’ll keep blowtorching them. We kin have a good ol’ fish fry with all ’em rid herrin’s yinz’r landin’.

    As for the Bush records I believe the court ordered ones were original. That is based on what I remember reading about those examining them had to go to a certain place (forget where) to see them. They weren’t released to the public.

    They were microfilm. Ergo, not original records.

  42. Rambo rambled:

    RC started this thread with “…Jay Carney handed out copies…” Copies are never the original source.

    I suppose they should have ordered a couple of hundred certified copies? But wait, every Birther would want one. That is at least 150. What a moron you are.

  43. gsgs says:

    why not 150 ? sell them ! Let Obama sign them so they will even become precious for collectors.
    They flew to Hawaii for just 2 ? 150 would have cost not much more, copying and signing
    is cheap as compared to Hawaii-flying

    • Fortunately, President has more dignity and respect for the office than to do something as incredibly stupid like you suggest. There is no reason to get down in the mud with pigs.

  44. NBC says:

    Fortunately, President has more dignity and respect for the office than to do something as incredibly stupid like you suggest. There is no reason to get down in the mud with pigs.

    But a Mug or a T-shirt would be quite sweet 😉
    But yeah, this is such a non-issue and a signed document would still not convince most of the birthers, whose objections are far less to President Obama’s eligibility status than to his policies.

    I can understand why they are upset as our President has done quite a bit to raise the standard of living and care in our Nation.

  45. gsgs says:

    what you call “dignity”, “respect”, “mud” is just subjective. Some (local) culture that you think has
    emerged. There is no logical reason for it and it might well “evolve” and change with time.
    I think it has came into fashion from the “need” to hide things in general in the NSA-USA..
    There were times when politicians were proud and eager to talk about their personal things
    (but people were bored to hear it ;-))

    • gsgs said

      what you call “dignity”, “respect”, “mud” is just subjective.

      Just because is is subjective doesn’t mean it isn’t real or important. I don’t think you have ever grasped the racial aspect of the Birthers’ “show me your papers boy” campaign that they have been running for five years. It is possibly because you do not understand the cultural significance of asking a black man in this country to prove his identity like he were a runaway slave. That is why President Obama only reluctantly allowed the exercise of releasing a copy of his LFBC to happen to shut up Donald Trump, who had used is status to drag the Birther nonsense into the media other than Birther blogs and right wing rags like WND. President Obama may joke about Birthers but it is clear he finds them offensive as do I.

  46. gsgs says:

    as I said. It’s cultural. Presidents are different from runaway slaves.
    Their trustworthyness is an important matter of national and international
    politics, especially in the time of nuclear overkill capacities and
    (not-so-well-working) international trust and treaties.

    If the birthers are offensive, then it’s nor for asking about documents and information,
    but rather about their constructed non-evidence and flawed “analysis”.
    The best thing to meet this would be an open analysis with open data.
    If someone asks for 150 copies, then why not ?
    As long as he pays for it. IMO that would only decrease the dignity for the one
    who asks for it (well, not dignity, just head-shaking) and not the president
    who just acts like an obot here and orders the copies 😉

    When you want to express your disgust about asking questions, then make a law for it.
    Black people mustn’t be asked about certain documents or such.
    If Obama dislikes people asking for his birth certificate for the reason that you
    give, then isn’t it dishonest by Obama to keep quiet about that real reason
    and create other reasons ?
    > “We have no time for this, more important things to do”
    which is ridiculous. They could just require a fee to cover the expenses of the
    employees and equipment required, if necessary.

  47. rtm9999 says:

    RC: It will be easier to answer in your comment since you jumped all over the place.
    Silly Obots …
    Silly RTM9999

    RC says:
    “I believe we may consider the great Birther mystery of the “blue background” as having been solved. The room really has lots of blue. Blue curtains, blue carpet, and blue chairs. Nice job Noirthland10. ”

    Well “I believe” ain’t cutting it when the facts debunk the silly Obot belief…

    The “blue” decor wouldn’t show up on a picture taken with a camera, that is just stupid to even suggest it but then that isn’t the only problem with the total BS claims made in the comment above ….

    If the photograph were taken with ambient light and no flash then reflected light from decor most certainly would affect the color. Applewhite probably did not use a flash because it would have produced glare. Applewhite himself said he probably didn’t do any color correction since he wanted to get the photo uploaded to AP quickly.

    The author of the article bases his beliefs on quotes Woodman…
    Woodman relied on what actually wasn’t the original of the Applewhite “picture” to go off claiming to give an accurate analysis of what he mistakenly thought was the original “picture” that Applewhite erroneously claimed to have taken at the WH Press Gaggle….

    WHY was the copy with the bluish tint posted the day after the WH Press Gaggle even though an earlier color “copy” with the security thatching existed from the time of the WH Press Gaggle?

    What? Applewhite said he took a picture of the handout image. Are you calling him a liar? It was posted the same morning as the press conference at multiple sites. Woodman used one of the versions of the AP image in his analysis and he correctly concluded that the existence of the AP image show that a paper document existed that could not have been a printout of the PDF. Therefore the most likely explanation is that there was an original paper document that was the source for the PDF, the AP JPG and the Savannah Guthrie photo.

    WHY alter such a “copy” to make it appear that the only copy that exists is a B&W copy?

    The facts that illustrate why the questions are pertinent are that the copy shown in this RCradioblog article is roughly the 3rd or 4th+ generation copy of the Applewhite AP “picture” …
    A B&W version roughly just 2 minutes older does NOT have the bluish tint at all . :

    http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20110427%2FNEWS11%2F110429781
    The version in this article can be seen without the blue tint and this version is time stamped at 11:28: 25 …

    I do not see a downloadable high resolution image at that link.

    The time stamp for the version Applegate “picture” in this article is time stamped at 11;30:21

    So in roughly 2 minutes the AP version gained a bluish tint after being posted on a capecodonline.com website …..

    I have saved on my hard drive an even earlier color version of the Applewhite “picture” with security thatching that the date/time stamp shows April 27.2011 @ 8:53 AM or 5 minutes after the WH press Gaggle started.
    No cameras/recording equipment were allowed , only pen and pad and so it’s actually no surprise at all that no camera at all is listed in the file properties of the Applewhite “picture” that I saved a copy on my hard drive.

    Why don’t you post the image then? You are assuming that Applewhite would not have been allowed to take a picture of the handout either in the main room before the gaggle started or in an office off to the side. What Carney likely meant was that no video of the gaggle would be allowed. The White House wanted the President’s appearance to be the story of the morning. Hermie made the same unjustified assumption. It is the typical Birther argument that if evidence doesn’t fit your kooky forgery theories then people are lying. Hermie was the master at it.

    So roughly 27 hours passes by and the color copy becomes a B&W version that in 2 minutes gains a blusish tint that of course contrary to RC’s “belief” did not come as a result of any blue decor in the WH press briefing room…

    The image posted in the article is the one posted at Obama Conspiracy Theories. There are other copies on line that were said to sourced from AP. I have no idea where you got 27 hours. The AP image was posted all over the internet the same day.

    Seems the Obots will believe anything another Obot says just because an Obot says it and that is because they are so used to only talking amongst themselves while not allowing any debate at all while giving each other slaps on the back as they go all in ad hom against the people that want the facts exposed that the Obots wouldn’t know a fact if it came up and bit them in the butt.

    Wow that is pure delusion. We rely on evidence and not sinister conspiracy theories completely unsupported by fact as Birthers do. Most Birther arguments start at the conclusion Obama could not have been born in Hawaii and work backwards. Paul Irey even admitted that. We are the ones who have predicted correctly the outcome of over 200 court actions and even predicted why the cases would be decided the way they were.

    Again the Obots are blatantly wrong in their analysis of this issue ( Just like they are wrong about so many other things… ) because they base their beliefs on what are non-facts as they shout down any counter argument and then as a result they mistakenly believe that they have a basis to character assassinate people like Hermitian.

    Hermitian assassinated his own character with his just plain wrong analyses and refusal to accept facts.

  48. rtm9999 says:

    RC also says
    “Just because is is subjective doesn’t mean it isn’t real or important. I don’t think you have ever grasped the racial aspect of the Birthers’ “show me your papers boy” campaign that they have been running for five years. It is possibly because you do not understand the cultural significance of asking a black man in this country to prove his identity like he were a runaway slave. That is why President Obama only reluctantly allowed the exercise of releasing a copy of his LFBC to happen to shut up Donald Trump, who had used is status to drag the Birther nonsense into the media other than Birther blogs and right wing rags like WND. President Obama may joke about Birthers but it is clear he finds them offensive as do I.”

    So IOWs you have a vendetta against “birthers” based on the same hateful bias that Obama has?

    There may be racists that oppose Obama because of his skin color however broad brushing everyone because of your bias is you just being a biased Obama troll and that bias manifests itself in the adolescent trollish way in which you and the other Obot troll “birthers” on this site and other Obot troll sites as you diss everyone that even dares to mention Obama being ineligible.

    Obviously doesn’t take even one brain cell for Obots to sink to the level of the trollish behavior they’ve always exhibited when discussing the issues involved…
    Including the image files being discussed in the article above.
    There are prior versions of the Applewhite “picture” including a color version that was saved just minutes after the WH Press Gaggle started…
    That version does not list any cameras ,lenses, etc. in it’s file attributes…
    You wasted your time consulting Applewhite to ask him about a file that was not a picture taken by any camera….
    The blue tint was not caused by the blue decor in the press briefing room…
    You guessed wrong.

    I doubt that you will have the integrity to issue a retraction and/or any apologies because of course your hate based on yoru biases will prevent even that much of a show of maturity!

    Obama may have reluctantly decided to post yet another image however it’s not for the reason you imagine because of course your preconceived bias clouds your reasoning.

    Obama followed the same basic pattern exhibited when he posted the first images…

    Post the image, gets some mostly left leaning shills to pay a visit to it ( And those shills of course couldn’t authenticate the piece or pieces of paper they visited even if they had wanted
    to, )dredge up some other pseudo authentication from the DOH, provide some more spurious hearsay evidence to herd the screeching cat Obots to start defending the images as if they were actual documents and then Obama gets to skulk back into the shadows as the obots defend his “honor” from the mean ol’ “racist” boogeymen that merely are w/in their rights to demand actual authenticated physical documentation.

    Obama is a former attorney…
    IF he paid attention in any of his law school classes even he ought to know that images posted on websites even with shill hearsay is not evidence of anything at all other than that it is evidence that the Obots have been trained to cite that nonsense w/o any actual investigation and/or forethought at all…

    None of the images posted along with none of the shills’ “eyewitness” statements, along with the other hearsay nonsense doesn’t amount to a single bean in a hill of beans as evidence.

    The COLB image even has the language on it that denotes that an actual physical COLB needs to be entered into evidence in a court proceeding for that COLB to be considered as prima facie evidence… Prima facie evidence can be overturned by contrary evidence…Rather than risk having to face contrary evidence …
    Obama’s and the Dem Party’s defense has been to file for dismissal based on lack of standing, moot or ripeness of the issue,etc. …
    Nope no COLB and of course no LFBC has ever even been entered into evidence in any court proceeding at all by Obama ,etc. and the plaintiff’s attempts to get a judge to allow records to be subpoenaed has been denied….
    The newspaper announcements and index data insertion are not certification either….
    While that may “convince” the easily fooled…
    Hawaiian statutes allow for all sorts of ways for an inaccurate or fraudulent birth certificate to make it’s way into the Hawaiian vital records…
    A “record that matches what the DOH has on file” is thus a worthless waste of paper….
    Because verification in lieu of a certifications are not certification so save the silly keystrokes of trying to act as if the verifications amount to certified authentication.
    338:18 prohibits all disclosure from or about vital records including from or about requests for vital records…
    So the “Fuddy letter” and the DOH public statements are not certification or authentication of any facts either…

    It’s all been dog and pony show meant to convince the easily fooled Obots and spineless fence sitters that go along for fear that they might get labeled a loon and/or a racist for merely wanting certified authentication.

    Even the NBC and RC efforts trying to promote the Xerox copier theory is a worthless endeavor since the WH image was posted hours after the press briefing and there is an earlier generation image that contains evidence that demonstrates that the Xerox copier theory is a complete waste of time.

    I would volunteer to post that however considering the juvenile behavior exhibited by the Obots the whole time Obama’s ineligibility has been an issue along with the stated Obot biases…
    Obviously it would be a waste to provide the image file for Obot consumption…

    The Obots couldn’t even get the not at all subtle fact that Obama lied about the smears he erroneously claimed existed because the 1991 bio that stated that Obama was born in Kenya proves that the born in Kenya narrative was published as fact for 16 years before Obama even announced his intention to run for the WH.

    Obama is a racist….
    Yet you are so biased you either can’t see it or you just refuse to see it…
    Obama didn’t call his White Grandmother who mostly raised him a “typical White woman” for nothing…
    After Barack and Michelle went to the cliff to scatter Madelyn’s ashes…
    Michelle can be seen running and jumping on Barack with joyful exuberance.
    They both speak in ways that demonstrate their racial prejudices….
    Dreams From My Father and Audacity of Hope have racist statements…
    Audacity of Hope based on Wright’s sermon by that title contains a statement talking about a “White man’s greed drives a world in need” …
    The transcript of that sermon does not contain that phrase at all.
    So if Wright didn’t say it in the sermon…
    Most likely it was Obama that personally created that phrase.

    Obama shouldn’t be excused in office as the Affirmative Action “president” merely because he just happens to be Black and his also biased and also likely racist supporters mistakenly think that people questioning his claims are all “racists” …
    Any claims he makes ought to be fully scrutinized just as if he were a White Republican male making the claims.

  49. rtm9999 says:

    RC also says

    “Fortunately, President has more dignity and respect for the office than to do something as incredibly stupid like you suggest. There is no reason to get down in the mud with pigs.”

    Unfortunately for RC Obama has zero credibility because Obama has blatantly lied to America on many important issues just to get elected and he has also lied to the world on numerous occasions also and his supporters like RC admit their biases and so they are just childish biased trolls that call Americans “pigs” simply because they hold a position that differs from theirs.

    The number of Obama admin scandals that include Obama lying to America and the world continue to mount….

    No sane person should trust any claim Obama or his admin makes including the claims about his “LFBC” no matter what the Obots “just happen to find in regards to what is a later generation image file” …..

    Obama has the obligation to just provide all that is actually needed to actually authenticate what are at best his dubious claims…..

    Obama and/ or shills in his admin posting images and calling them his “b/cs” is not tantamount to providing evidence…

    Anything else the obots would care to cite in the defense of Obama the liar? LOL

    Only the partisan/biased fool obots got sucked in…
    Anyone with eyes that see and brains that can think can understand that Obama has not produced squat.

    Go ahead obots “believe” ….
    Just demand all the physical certified evidence possible and then some because Obama is a liar and he and his pals had several years to place “evidence” so it could be found before he announced because Obama’s name was mentioned as a potential POTUS candidate clear back when he won his first state seat.

    Getting down in the mud with pigs thus entails trying in vain to find an adult in the room at an Obot blog with enough common sense to acknowledge that no evidence supporting Obama’s claims has been produced including the nonsense Xerox copier theory because there is an earlier generation color version of the “LFBC” file exists than the file posted on the WH website….

  50. roxy7655 says:

    Everything you claim is either patent nonsense or has been explained adequately. There is no evidence whatsoever for any of your claims. If there were, the Republicans would have pounced on it. But they don’t, because there isn’t any, and they are realists. They don’t want to be seen as tin-foil-hatted weirdos like you. They want to keep their jobs, so even though they can say lots of nutty stuff, this “eligibility issue” is too far down the rabbit hole.

    Our President is a fine man, and a good man. He will be remembered as one of our best Presidents, probably about 10th or 12th out of 44. He will never be shown to be ineligible, or to have committed any high crimes and misdemeanors. And posterity will wipe away all your lies, and all your foul and childish insults, leaving his legacy bright and clear.

    There is no serious person who believes BHO’s documents are forged. Only total morons and children. So which are you, rtm9999?

  51. rtm9999 I replied to your first first post above.

    You said:

    Unfortunately for RC Obama has zero credibility because Obama has blatantly lied to America on many important issues just to get elected and he has also lied to the world on numerous occasions also and his supporters like RC admit their biases and so they are just childish biased trolls that call Americans “pigs” simply because they hold a position that differs from theirs.

    Obama has done nothing to lose any credibility. I am sure you have immersed yourself in the conservative media bubble of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Yes, I have disgust for most Birthers. I think they are unpatriotic sore losers who are trying to undo two legitimate elections. It is not that they just hold positions I oppose. They will lie and repeat those lies when they have been shown time and time again they are wrong. Take your pick of any of a dozen Birther lies that have been debunked. How about the one that Obama signed an executive order to seal all his records when he first took office. It is patently untrue. The executive order he signed actually made some records previously not available under his predecessor available.

    Hawaiian statutes allow for all sorts of ways for an inaccurate or fraudulent birth certificate to make it’s way into the Hawaiian vital records…
    A “record that matches what the DOH has on file” is thus a worthless waste of paper….
    Because verification in lieu of a certifications are not certification so save the silly keystrokes of trying to act as if the verifications amount to certified authentication
    338:18 prohibits all disclosure from or about vital records including from or about requests for vital records…
    So the “Fuddy letter” and the DOH public statements are not certification or authentication of any facts either…

    There is no proof Hawaii’s vital statistics records are any less accurate than any state or that their laws are unique in a way that allows for fraud. Alvin Onaka is recognized as an outstanding registrar by his peers. This was a claim Mike Zullo made but never provided any proof that Hawaii is a haven for people with fraudulent birth certificates.

    Your statement about verifications is gibberish. Verifications as evidence are equivalent to certificated copies of birth certificates. Both are examples of prima facie evidence. The comment about Hawaii 338.18 is uniquely stupid. President Obama had already made the records public. The record was issued to President Obama’s agent under exception 338.18(b)1. The Fuddy letter merely confirmed that the record had been made available to the registrant. No vital statistics information was released directly to the public via the letter. You can bet that every statement Hawaii has issued on the matter was approved by one of their attorneys, most likely Jill Nagamine. You seem to pretend you know more about Hawaii law than they do.

  52. Hektor says:

    You know one of the things that amuses me is the ole Obama is a liar fake out. It’s a really stupid rhetorical trick that many birthers use. It ignores the fact that there are other people (Congress, judges in over 200 cases, the State of Hawaii, various other state officials) that are in agreement with the President over the facts of his birth. Simultaneously, it then completely twists in on itself like a mobius strip and becomes a justification of a massive conspiracy involving these independent entities as a supposed counter-argument. Of course, the assumption of a conspiracy is one of convenience, not of evidence. It never occurs to them that if President Obama said that the sun rose in the east, that he is a supposed liar is not proof of a conspiracy involving the weather channel, NASA, astronomers and your own lying eyes to deceive everyone. One cannot just assume a massive conspiracy because it fits one’s own prejudices and bigotry. One has to (at the barest minimum) prove that this is the case, otherwise the simpler explanation–that the President is telling the truth in the matter, whether it is a consequence of the direction of rotation of the Earth or whether he was born in Hawaii–is the only logical conclusion.

  53. roxy7655 says:

    Speaking of miasmic rhetorical trickiness, I thought this worth repeating. An Obot named Thomas Brown posted this at Doc C’s:

    It’s an interesting phenomenon, almost Nietzschean* really, how people that were once “Deniers,” as in “Moon Landing Deniers” or “Holocaust Deniers,” have cleverly gained the upper hand (or so they think) by calling themselves not “Deniers” but “Truthers.”

    Denying something happened is less appealing (and harder) than claiming to be revealing the “Truth” that something else happened instead. There is often annoying, inconvenient evidence (like film footage of, and eyewitness testimony about, the Nazi Death Camps) that makes the subject hard to deny, but claiming to be exposing an alternate “Truth” can easily include a tall tale of how the evidence was falsified by nefarious forces to appear factual.

    The term also carries an implied narrative that the “Truth” has not come out yet; further, that someone is trying to prevent it from coming out. That casts “Truthers” in the role of savior (rescuing Truth, Justice, and the American Way) and hero (because of how Brave they are in confronting the Evil and Powerful (albeit imaginary) “Conspiracy of Silence”). It also enables “Concern Trolling,” because they can say “I’m only trying to get at the truth” even though that assumes facts not in evidence.

    In short, it lets them spread vile, filthy, seditious lies while seemingly trailing clouds of glory.

    *and here I’m thinking along the lines of The Genealogy of Morals wherein Judeo-Christianity flips the old semantics of Good and Bad on its head… Anciently, Good meant successful, high-born, clean, influential, educated, etc. while Bad meant the poor and dirty, ignorant and often criminal, unwashed masses. It is of monumental historic import that Good was made to mean “the meek, the humble, the common clay,” and the title Bad began to be ascribed to the powerful, wealthy, blue-blooded elite. (It’s 30+ years since I read Nietzsche, but I think I’ve done justice to the basic idea.)

  54. Rob Ca says:

    Hektor says:
    You know one of the things that amuses me is the ole Obama is a liar fake out. It’s a really stupid rhetorical trick that many birthers use. “

    The Oaid makes Obots delusional…
    Non-facts makes them breathe in nitrous oxide bubbles giddy.
    Don’t be silly Obot…. It’s just the fact that Obama lies like a rug…. It’s actually just stupid Obot spin to play the game being played by trying to call bringing up his lies “a stupid rhetorical trick” …
    Obama for example as I mentioned earlier blatantly lied to the American people in regards to Obamacare…
    To pretend that his lies don’t matter because Obots want to write those lies off simply because they want to stay in denial of his lack of credibility is simply the Obots living in a fantasy world pretending that Obama can do no wrong.
    Obama being a liar is a legitimate issue that dove tails into all of his erroneous claims including his erroneous claim to being born in Hawaii.

    “It ignores the fact that there are other people (Congress, judges in over 200 cases, the State of Hawaii, various other state officials) that are in agreement with the President over the facts of his birth. Simultaneously, it then completely twists in on itself like a mobius strip and becomes a justification of a massive conspiracy involving these independent entities as a supposed counter-argument. “

    Gotta love the Obot spin…
    Hysterically funny how the Obots trot out the same ol’ tired paraphrasing of Factcheck’s “Born in the USA” ‘s “It’d take a massive conspiracy to pull it off” nonsense Obot talking points…
    You are ignoring the facts…
    Hawaiian statute 338:18 prohibits all disclosure to all that lack direct and tangible interest…
    The public lacks direct and tangible interest…
    NO ONE in the HDOH or the Hawaiian government can disclose from or about vital statistic records including requests from or about vital records…
    The public statements are worthless ….
    Even Fuddy’s alleged letter as an image posted on the WH website is
    worthless along with the Hawaiian AG’s statement and yup Abercrombie’s too.….
    The every same Nancy Pelosi that stated that Congress would have to pass Obamacare in order to find out what’s in it …
    Signed off on Obama’s nomination papers.
    Since the Obots were throwing out the race card early and often at every chance they could get…
    Congress merely certified the vote in two successive GEs w/o launching an investigation into Obama’s claims…
    No lawsuit ever resulted in any judge authenticating Obama’s COLB and /or LFBC was historically accurate by subpoenaing original birth records, subpoenaing witnesses to cross examine them, etc…
    When that has been done for the IRS, VA, etc. scandals people w/in the Obama admin has been shown to be lying and/or obstructing justice with the trail leading very closely to the WH.
    Thus not a single member of Congress, judge in any lawsuit, etc. demanded Obama’s alleged physical COLB …

    They relied on images posted on the internet and public statements made by HDOH employees…
    Massive conspiracies happen…
    Although in Obama’s circumstance …
    It only takes the threat of calling politicians racists or loons to keep them cowering in a corner fearing that if they dare even recommend Obama pony up his b/c ….
    They’ll be seen as a racist loon.
    All Obama needed is gullible people to mistakenly believe he was being smeared and then he garnered sympathy by playing on those gullible people’s emotions ( Look in the mirror Obots. ) …
    Post an image claiming that the image was his “b/c” …
    Get some shills that don’t even have to be in on it pay a visit to a print out copy of the image …
    Plant some newspaper announcements and a index listing ….
    And voila Obots bite down hard on the bait.

    How many folks accepted that Frank Abergnali was an airline pilot or that the bogus checks he wrote were legit?
    Were the folks that hired him as a Dr , airline pilot, university professor, attorney, etc. in on his scam?

    “Of course, the assumption of a conspiracy is one of convenience, not of evidence. It never occurs to them that if President Obama said that the sun rose in the east, that he is a supposed liar is not proof of a conspiracy involving the weather channel, NASA, astronomers and your own lying eyes to deceive everyone. One cannot just assume a massive conspiracy because it fits one’s own prejudices and bigotry. One has to (at the barest minimum) prove that this is the case, otherwise the simpler explanation–that the President is telling the truth in the matter, whether it is a consequence of the direction of rotation of the Earth or whether he was born in Hawaii–is the only logical conclusion.”

    This isn’t about Obama talking about the sun rising in the East although Obama once claimed he was in Asia when he was in Hawaii if that makes you feel any better.
    The 1991 bio demonstrates that there wasn’t a smear for the gullible Obots to fight…
    NASA , Weather Channel, astronomers, earth rotation, etc. into all things not related to the issue…
    All that Obot acid trip nonsense aside …
    Obama is not trustworthy because he lied in many ways and in many areas just to get elected..
    He stabbed the person in the back that even got him introduced into Chicago political life by challenging the signatures on the petitions along with the other opposition candidates petitions so that he could run unopposed for the state senate seat he “won”!

    The Obots defending Obama the liar by pretending that he couldn’t be lying simply because he uses con man tricks of getting shills to vouch for him, etc. is just plain Obot nonsense spin.

    Logically sane people don’t trust liars like Obama the liar….
    Obots embrace Obama as if he couldn’t lie at all!

  55. Rob Ca says:

    roxy7655 says:
    May 30, 2014 at 5:39 pm
    Speaking of miasmic rhetorical trickiness, I thought this worth repeating. An Obot named Thomas Brown posted this at Doc C’s:
    It’s an interesting phenomenon, almost Nietzschean* really, how people that were once “Deniers,” as in “Moon Landing Deniers” or “Holocaust Deniers,” have cleverly gained the upper hand (or so they think) by calling themselves not “Deniers” but “Truthers.”

    Hilariously along those lines Obots have taken to calling themselves “non-birthers” or “anti-birthers” ….
    The deniers are the Obots since they deny that Obama is capable of lying merely because they cite shills as if they are certifying Obama’s Hawaiian POB claims.

    Obama is the political version of a “Pig in a Poke” …
    “Pig-in-a-poke (cat in a bag)Pig-in-a-poke originated in the late Middle Ages. The con entails a sale of a (suckling) “pig” in a “poke” (bag). The bag ostensibly contains a live healthy little pig, but actually contains a cat (not particularly prized as a source of meat). If one buys the bag without looking inside it, the person has bought something of less value than was assumed, and has learned first-hand the lesson caveat emptor. “Buying a pig in a poke” has become a colloquial expression in many European languages, including English, for when someone buys something without examining it beforehand. In Slovenia, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Montenegro, Poland, Denmark, France, Belgium, Lithuania, Latvia, the Netherlands, Norway, Israel, Germany, Russia and Ukraine, the “pig” in the phrase is replaced by “cat”, referring to the bag’s actual content, but the saying is otherwise identical. This is also said to be where the phrase “letting the cat out of the bag” comes from, although there may be other explanations. In Portugal, Brazil and other Portuguese speaking countries the “pig” in the phrase is replaced by a hare or jackrabbit. Therefore a victim thinks he is buying a hare, when in reality he is buying a cat, hence the expression “gato por lebre”.

    “Denying something happened is less appealing (and harder) than claiming to be revealing the “Truth” that something else happened instead. There is often annoying, inconvenient evidence (like film footage of, and eyewitness testimony about, the Nazi Death Camps) that makes the subject hard to deny, but claiming to be exposing an alternate “Truth” can easily include a tall tale of how the evidence was falsified by nefarious forces to appear factual.
    The term also carries an implied narrative that the “Truth” has not come out yet; further, that someone is trying to prevent it from coming out. That casts “Truthers” in the role of savior (rescuing Truth, Justice, and the American Way) and hero (because of how Brave they are in confronting the Evil and Powerful (albeit imaginary) “Conspiracy of Silence”). It also enables “Concern Trolling,” because they can say “I’m only trying to get at the truth” even though that assumes facts not in evidence.
    In short, it lets them spread vile, filthy, seditious lies while seemingly trailing clouds of glory.
    *and here I’m thinking along the lines of The Genealogy of Morals wherein Judeo-Christianity flips the old semantics of Good and Bad on its head… Anciently, Good meant successful, high-born, clean, influential, educated, etc. while Bad meant the poor and dirty, ignorant and often criminal, unwashed masses. It is of monumental historic import that Good was made to mean “the meek, the humble, the common clay,” and the title Bad began to be ascribed to the powerful, wealthy, blue-blooded elite. (It’s 30+ years since I read Nietzsche, but I think I’ve done justice to the basic idea.)”

    Problem with all that spin is that the truth did come out .:
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/05/17/The-Vetting-Barack-Obama-Literary-Agent-1991-Born-in-Kenya-Raised-Indonesia-Hawaii

    There was never a smear for the Obots to fight because the born in Kenya fact had been published 16 years before Obama even announced his run for the WH.

  56. Rob Ca says:

    Reality Check says:
    May 30, 2014 at 7:59 am
    Obama has done nothing to lose any credibility. I am sure you have immersed yourself in the conservative media bubble of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. Yes, I have disgust for most Birthers. I think they are unpatriotic sore losers who are trying to undo two legitimate elections. It is not that they just hold positions I oppose. They will lie and repeat those lies when they have been shown time and time again they are wrong. Take your pick of any of a dozen Birther lies that have been debunked. How about the one that Obama signed an executive order to seal all his records when he first took office. It is patently untrue. The executive order he signed actually made some records previously not available under his predecessor available. “

    Really the Obots do live in such a denial filled artificial existence…
    Obama’s poll numbers are in the toilet because he was caught in a bald faced lie concerning Obamacare….
    Thus this has absolutely NOTHING to do with Fox news and Rush Limbaugh…
    This has nothing to do with undoing elections ….
    You will repeat that spin until you are blue in the face and still be wrong…
    Even Dem politicians have labeled Obama’s lie concerning Obamacare a lie….
    Pathetically Obama is also living in a similar denial filled artificial existence tries to blame his fallen poll numbers on his being Black!
    Had you been paying attention obviously even you would know you were wrong and it is absolutely pathetic that you try and bring in goofy Obot talking points about Fox and Limbaugh since neither have actually covered the issue of Obama being ineligible to any real extent….
    Fox even ran a few articles trying to show the WH image was not a forgery…
    Yet you try to paint Fox news as the conspiracy theory equivalent of always in every case against Obama boogey man hiding under Obama’s bed!
    Take my pick of the Obot talking points…
    Fox and/or Limbaugh hasn’t covered them really.
    The EO is just something the Obots get their panties in a wad over as if that debunks everything wrong with Obama’s claims….
    Speaking of Obama lies….
    .How about that doozy of erroneously claiming that he was a law professor at the University of Chicago even though he was merely a senior lecturer…
    It’s not like Obama would pad his resume to make himself appear to be something he wasn’t is it?

    “There is no proof Hawaii’s vital statistics records are any less accurate than any state or that their laws are unique in a way that allows for fraud. Alvin Onaka is recognized as an outstanding registrar by his peers. This was a claim Mike Zullo made but never provided any proof that Hawaii is a haven for people with fraudulent birth certificates. “

    That’s not what I was talking about silly Obot….
    Hawaiian statutes allow for all sorts of ways for an inaccurate or fraudulent birth certificate to make it’s way into the Hawaiian vital records…

    Other states can have similar statutes because other states can have similar issue to regulate
    Even though a certificate MAY exist …
    That doesn’t in and of itself mean that the information contained in it is historically accurate…
    So several Hawaiian statutes demonstrate that it can take a court actually subpoenaing records to investigate even a certificate to find out if the certificate accurately reflects the vital event or not.
    Onaka wasn’t the registrar in 1961…
    So it doesn’t matter what awards or recognition Onaka received since this is about what statutes say about certificates and how they are actually authenticated…
    Posting images online isn’t even considered legit since even the Hawaiian legislature wasn’t stupid enough to pass legislation to allow an online image to be considered an actual b/c let alone one that was authenticated.

    “Your statement about verifications is gibberish. Verifications as evidence are equivalent to certificated copies of birth certificates. Both are examples of prima facie evidence.”

    Baloney….
    Certificates are certificates and verifications are verifications and both are covered by entirely separate statutes with entirely different wording for specific legal reasons…
    The certificate is considered the same as the original…
    §338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
    (b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
    (c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]

    There are “subject to the requirements is listed statutes” provisos even concerning certificates…338:16 and 338:17 for example covers this ….

    §338-16 Procedure concerning late and altered birth certificates. (a) Birth certificates registered one year or more after the date of birth, and certificates which have been altered after being filed with the department of health, shall contain the date of the late filing and the date of the alteration and be marked distinctly “late” or “altered”.
    (b) A summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for late filing or the alteration shall be endorsed on the certificates.
    (c) Such evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.

    (d) When an applicant does not submit the minimum documentation required by the rules for late registration or when the state registrar finds reasons to question the validity or adequacy of the certificate or the documentary evidence, the state registrar shall not register the late certificate and shall advise the applicant of the reason for this action.
    The department of health may by rule provide for the dismissal of an application which is not actively prosecuted.
    (e) As used in this section, “late” means one year or more after the date of birth. [L 1949, c 327, §20; RL 1955, §57-19; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-16; am L 1972, c 66, §1(2); am L 1997, c 305, §3]

    §338-17 Late or altered certificate as evidence. The probative value of a “late” or “altered” certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. [L 1949, c 327, §21; RL 1955, §57-20; HRS §338-17; am L 1997, c 305, §4]

    The verification does not contain that language at all
    §338-14.3 Verification in lieu of a certified copy. (a) Subject to the requirements of section 338-18, the department of health, upon request, shall furnish to any applicant, in lieu of the issuance of a certified copy, a verification of the existence of a certificate and any other information that the applicant provides to be verified relating to the vital event that pertains to the certificate.
    (b) A verification shall be considered for all purposes certification that the vital event did occur and that the facts of the event are as stated by the applicant.

    The verification is used to verify the existence of a certificate…
    The verification is also subject to provisos and whether or not the certificate is accurate, whether or not it was late or altered, etc. w/o actually having an actual physical certificate to verify…
    Can’t be submarined when the HDOH has issues with the applicant,etc….
    Obama’s images and/or print outs of the images are not certificates..
    Can’t use a verification to verify the historical accuracy of images.

    “ The comment about Hawaii 338.18 is uniquely stupid. President Obama had already made the records public. The record was issued to President Obama’s agent under exception 338.18(b)1. The Fuddy letter merely confirmed that the record had been made available to the registrant. No vital statistics information was released directly to the public via the letter. You can bet that every statement Hawaii has issued on the matter was approved by one of their attorneys, most likely Jill Nagamine. You seem to pretend you know more about Hawaii law than they do. “

    Baloney Obot.
    Trying call citing 338:1`8 and the definition as stated by the HDOH’s own website is stupid.
    IF what the Obots claimed were true…
    Then all of the plaintiffs in all of the lawsuits would not have even had to file lawsuits to try to subpoena certified b/cs….
    Instead the HDOH lists a court case in which the plaintiff wanted to get a look at Obama’s b/c and was denied by the court…
    IF what you claim were true none of the plaintiffs would have even had to file even a single lawsuit at all…
    Instead Fukino argued 338:18.
    The letter would be considered disclosure from or about a request for vital records…
    I don’t need to bet against Obot speculation when the facts speak for themselves….
    Disclosure is prohibited to those that lack direct and tangible interest.
    The Hawaiian statutes along with the HDOH official definition are explicitly stated on the HDOH website.

    http://health.hawaii.gov/vitalrecords/faq-obama/
    ……………
    State law prohibits the DOH from disclosing any vital statistics records or information contained in such records unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record, or as otherwise allowed by statute or administrative rule. See HRS §338-18. Direct and tangible interest is determined by HRS §338-18(b).
    In light of the unprecedented number of requests for information relating to the vital records of President Barack Hussein Obama II, the DOH has reviewed the requirements of UIPA and the confidentiality provisions of HRS Chapter 338.
    Based upon that review, the DOH has determined that the information listed below constitutes all of the publicly available information related to requests for vital statistics records pertaining to President Barack Hussein Obama II, and the only disclosures pertaining to those records that can be made in accordance with Hawaii law. The Department of Health is providing links to copies of the records in the form that they are available to the public.
    1. Birth Certificate or Certificate of Live Birth
    State law prohibits the DOH for disclosing any information about a Hawaii vital record unless the requestor has a direct and tangible interest in the record. This includes verification of vital records and all the information contained in a record. Vital records disclosure laws protect all birth, death, marriage and divorce records held by the department and all amendments, changes, supporting records, and requests related to vital records.
    …………
    The following court decision upheld the statute which restricts access to vital records:
    Justice v. Fuddy–ICA–April 7, 2011 Concurring opinion by J. Leonard.– denial of request to see President Obama’s birth certificate.
    http://www.courts.state.hi.us/docs/opin_ord/ica/2011/apr/ica30176.pdf”

  57. Rob Ca says:

    roxy7655 says:
    May 29, 2014 at 3:45 pm

    Everything you claim is either patent nonsense or has been explained adequately. There is no evidence whatsoever for any of your claims. If there were, the Republicans would have pounced on it. But they don’t, because there isn’t any, and they are realists. They don’t want to be seen as tin-foil-hatted weirdos like you. They want to keep their jobs, so even though they can say lots of nutty stuff, this “eligibility issue” is too far down the rabbit hole.”

    Everything you say is Obot spin…
    The evidence is in the awful and continuing to fall Obama poll numbers…
    The Obots have worn out the race card…
    It ain’t working anymore.

    “Our President is a fine man, and a good man. He will be remembered as one of our best Presidents, probably about 10th or 12th out of 44. He will never be shown to be ineligible, or to have committed any high crimes and misdemeanors. And posterity will wipe away all your lies, and all your foul and childish insults, leaving his legacy bright and clear.
    There is no serious person who believes BHO’s documents are forged. Only total morons and children. So which are you, rtm9999?”

    You are truly delusional…
    Obamacare roll out will be remembered as a blatant disaster…
    Millions more are going to lose their insurance after the band aid fix he placed on the mandates expire…
    So NO he isn’t a “fine man” …
    He lies profusely.
    He lied to Americans telling them that they could keep doctors and insurance that they wanted to keep…
    Millions have lost the insurance they liked and wanted to keep…
    Since they lost their insurance the doctors many times are not included in the Obamacare plans…
    Even Dems called those lies lies.
    He golfs while bad things are happening to Americans and US interests…
    His tanked poll numbers reflect the fact that the people paying attention don’t trust him.
    There are examples of even Black liberals from Chicago demanding that Obama resign.
    Obama has lost double digit support amongst Blacks…
    Although he once enjoyed nearly 100% support…
    That has eroded to roughly 84%…
    Independents have left the building.
    The Rs ,independents a sizable portion of minorities no longer fear the race card…
    The wierdos are the entrenched Obots that still want to defend Obama …
    Even MSNBC has been running negative coverage about Obama

    The MSNBC lib commentator Rachel Maddow even dons what you stupidly call a “tin foil hat” to explain that Obama is suggesting creating an ad hoc “legal” way to indefinitely deatin Americans w/o charges or trials,etc….

    You are so full of Oaid trying to defend Obama that you make yourself into a complete fool…
    Obama is pushing what is w/o a doubt unconstitutional plans that even Rachel Maddow is starting to recognize as being unconstitutional and she called Obama to task over it and that is something considering how firmly attached the MSNBC ‘s commentators lips are attached to Obama’s behind.
    Obama has already shown he has committed high crimes and misdemeanors….

    At the latest after the mid terms …
    IF not before…
    He will be impeached …
    The list of articles of impeachment is already drawn up …
    Obama is adding to that list quite frequently…..
    As shown even MSNBC ‘s Rachel Maddow is calling what Obama proposed unconstitutional….
    All of the scandals are causing his numbers to go even lower…
    Even Obots ought to get the not at all subtle hint that Obama is a loony tune thug!
    Obama is toxic and many Dems don’t want Obama to be tied to campaigning for them.
    LSM reporters openly laughed at the State Dept shill that tried real hard to say something positive about Obama’s foreign policy efforts.

  58. CA Rob

    How long did it take you to write all that poorly sourced, poorly formatted, fact-free gibberish?

  59. boysmom4 says:

    I have to apologize for linking your fine site to an on-going birth certificate thread and discussion I have been having with “Rob” for quite a while. It seems he’s gone both barrels on this site and is regurgitating most if not all of his tired old talking points to what he considers a new audience. Just ignore him and maybe he’ll go away.

    • You don’t have to apologize boysmom4. Bits at WordPress.com are free. 😉

      I is funny to see them bring up the same tired arguments. They sure live to bring up the promotional booklet bio from Acton & Dystel that Obama didn’t write for a book that was not written and which the author said was her mistake in 1991. It us a lead pipe cinch that a birther will bring that up. Yet they discount certified birth certificates, verifications, and tons of evidence that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  60. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself in public, CARob, you might try acquainting yourself with this: http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/96756764

  61. And another thing… I’ve got $1000 says Obama will not be forced to resign, and if he is impeached by the psychotic Tea-Tard House, he will not be convicted; and further, that he will never be adjudicated ineligible for the office of President, by Congress OR the Court, for any reason including not being a Natural Born Citizen, before finishing out his term. (And it won’t count as a win if our President is assassinated by one of your co-seditionists or otherwise dies in office.)

    So, are you willing to put real cash where your mouth is, or are you (as I’m sure you are) just a bunch of hot air?

    I believe God’s grace is with Barack Obama. He is an exemplary American: married but once, never divorced, a lovely nuclear family, not a hint of sex or any other personal type of scandal.

    He loves America, Rob. Which is more than I can say about you.

    And so you work against him, against America, and against Truth. But that won’t last. All the filthy, disgusting, un-American garbage you presume to heap upon his head will melt away like a light snow when the earth is warm in Spring. Because your cause is cold: divisiveness, suspicion, rumor-mongering, bearing false witness. Your cause is bad for America. Ours is warm: better treatment and prospects for all Americans, conservatives included. We strive for strength, justice, equality and prosperity. Our cause is good for America.

    Have you checked the stock market lately, Rob? It is close to triple the level Bush’s tenure drove it down to. What does that have to do with Obama? Simple; the market is mood. And obviously Business is confident in the stability Obama has brought. Business is vital, and Business is global. Our reputation abroad hasn’t been as positive as it is today since WWII. Jobs are coming back, as are home prices. My shop (which does not work for the government, by the way) is so busy I will probably need two more mechanics by Christmas.

    Prepare yourself, Rob. You will never see the day you imagine, when all your idiot fantasies are borne out. America is not suffering under Obama, it is thriving. You will live in a future where rational, loyal, mature conservatives (who already think every single thing you’ve said on this page is utter hogwash) will know that Birferism was a concoction of lies.

    You are embarrassing them, Rob. And thanks for that. But you rend the fabric of reason and order, to the detriment of my Country, and for that I condemn you. If you were capable of shame you would hang your head and beg forgiveness from loyal Americans, liberal and conservative alike.

    Every single fact that we claim is so will be considered true, to your increasing chagrin, for the rest of your days. Every one of your assertions will be remembered as crazy, mean-spirited and anti-American, if they are remembered at all.

    So take the bet, Rob. We’ll work out the details. I am sure to win your money, because you have nothing on my President, and you never will.

  62. Rob Ca says:

    Reality Check says:
    June 1, 2014 at 7:57 am
    CA Rob
    How long did it take you to write all that poorly sourced, poorly formatted, fact-free gibberish?”

    Who is CA Rob?
    I can only assume that is a reply to me.
    My username here is rtm9999.
    There are fact galore RC.

    How long to post what I posted?
    I decided it was easier to C&P what you posted into Word and then put you post in quotation marks and hit the space bar to create space between your words and mine…
    So not long at all.
    Since I merely quoted your post and answered it…
    Ironically IF you are saying my post is “poorly formatted” …
    My post only quoted what you posted and I then answered your wording.
    The comment section in WordPress does not offer tools to differentiate between your post and my reply and I tried to bold your portions in Word however that did not carry over in my reply.

    That said the crying over “poor formatting” is just Obot spin.

  63. Rob Ca says:

    baltimore00roadscholar says:
    June 1, 2014 at 9:50 pm
    Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself in public, CARob, you might try acquainting yourself with this: http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/96756764

    Wow that was silly.
    I’m well acquainted with Obot talking point spin.

    The facts are that everything in the article is hearsay until dragged into court as physical evidence and then authenticated in a court proceeding by acquiring the original hospital records,etc. to ascertain whether or not any of that is historically accurate for the claimed August 4,1961 DOB.
    Images are not certificates and neither are verifications…
    The memos for instance were acquired via interviews with Sr…
    The Indonesian school registration lists the religion as Muslim…
    IF you want to cite that you have to admit that Obama is a blatant liar!
    The newspaper announcements do not state where the unnamed son was born( Sr, Anna and newborn infant II never lived at the birth announcement address… There is no evidence that Sr , Ann and II ever lived together… In fact the evidence shows that Ann and II were in Washington state in August ,1961 at a time when according to the Obama birth myth …Sr left the family that there is no record of them ever living together. ) ….
    338:18 prohibits all disclosure to all that lack direct and tangible interest including disclosure from or about requests for vital records.
    The verifications are not certification of authenticity…
    Neither is the index file listing…
    Newspaper,magazine articles?
    I can cite just as many that list BHOII’s POB in Kenya…
    I can cite Kenyan officials that state BHOII was born in Kenya…
    I can cite the 1991 bio authored by BHOII that states that he was born in Hawaii…
    I can cite numerous documented instances in which vital statistic employees and government officials assisted in forgery of birth certificates ( The Full Faith and creidt nonsense the Obots cite? LOL ) ….

    Etc. etc. etc. …
    Since BHOII’s name was being offered up as a potential WH candidate since just after he was elected by hook and crook to the state senate in 1996….

    BHOII and his henchmen thus had years to create and/or doctor records, magazine articles, insert or apply for an “original” “LFBC”, etc. from Hawaii,etc…

    IF the Obots actually want to prove BHO II was born in Hawaii …
    They need to produce the physical certified LFBC, enter that into evidence and then have a court actually authenticate it’s accuracy via the actual physical hospital records, etc.!

    Obviously the Obots don’t have even the molecule of common sense to even begin to realize that that is the only way to actually prove Obama’s nonsense claims!

  64. Rob Ca says:

    baltimore00roadscholar says:
    June 1, 2014 at 11:09 pm
    And another thing… I’ve got $1000 says Obama will not be forced to resign, and if he is impeached by the psychotic Tea-Tard House, he will not be convicted; and further, that he will never be adjudicated ineligible for the office of President, by Congress OR the Court, for any reason including not being a Natural Born Citizen, before finishing out his term. (And it won’t count as a win if our President is assassinated by one of your co-seditionists or otherwise dies in office.)”
    That sure is some wild Obot ranting and raving going on from a person that doesn’t know me at all.
    Your money would be best used to help the family members of the Benghazi and VA hospital victims.
    Obama has abused power, etc…
    Any and every elected member has the oath required duty to ignore party affiliation and every other lame excuse to play political games to remove Obama from office.
    The Constitution allows for prosecution of impeached officials after they are removed from office.
    Who said anything about assassination…
    I certainly did not in the past, do not now and don’t advocate that as a re-course in the future.
    It is not sedition to advocate impeachment for Obama or any other official that has violated his oath of office, committed High Crimes and misdemeanors, etc. while in office….
    Of course that is why impeachment was included in the US Constitution by our patriotic Founding Fathers so that corruption could be peacefully rooted out of even the highest level of our government.

    “So, are you willing to put real cash where your mouth is, or are you (as I’m sure you are) just a bunch of hot air?”
    This isn’t about me silly Obot.
    The hot air balloon that is Obama was offered was offered millions of dollars to his favorite charities to produce a physical version of his LFBC….
    Nope.

    “I believe God’s grace is with Barack Obama. He is an exemplary American: married but once, never divorced, a lovely nuclear family, not a hint of sex or any other personal type of scandal. “

    Bill Clinton the serial philanderer never divorced and was only married once, etc. too…
    In public Hillary even played her part quite well however it is obvious that Bill’s cheating ways took an emotional toll on Hillary.
    The icy stare for instance that Michelle gave BHOII while he was taking the selfie tells quite the tale.

    “He loves America, Rob. Which is more than I can say about you.”

    Obama “loves” America so much that he ran on fundamentally changing her…
    Obama “loves” America so much that he is truning her once proud mightiest military status into an also ran which puts Americans, American interests and America’s security at risk while his stupid what isn’t foreign policy is alienating allies and strengthening our enemies.
    All I can say about Obots is that they are not paying attention to what is going on in the real world.
    I love America and support the peaceful removal of all the anti-Americans inside the Obama administration including Obama himself.

    “And so you work against him, against America, and against Truth. But that won’t last. All the filthy, disgusting, un-American garbage you presume to heap upon his head will melt away like a light snow when the earth is warm in Spring. Because your cause is cold: divisiveness, suspicion, rumor-mongering, bearing false witness. Your cause is bad for America. Ours is warm: better treatment and prospects for all Americans, conservatives included. We strive for strength, justice, equality and prosperity. Our cause is good for America.”

    No actually the Obots support a cold divisive ,filthy disgusting , un-American racist named Obama that has surrounded himself with like minded un-American ghouls that are autocratic freedom stealing despot supporting traitors.
    There is no suspicion …
    Obmama has even tipped his hand in the past part of his 2nd illegal term.
    Before the 2012 GE an open mike caught the traitorous jerk begging the Russian president to let Putin know that he needed more room….
    Have to be utterly stupid not see and understand that that was selling out America and her allies.

    “Have you checked the stock market lately, Rob? It is close to triple the level Bush’s tenure drove it down to. What does that have to do with Obama? Simple; the market is mood. And obviously Business is confident in the stability Obama has brought. Business is vital, and Business is global. Our reputation abroad hasn’t been as positive as it is today since WWII. Jobs are coming back, as are home prices. My shop (which does not work for the government, by the way) is so busy I will probably need two more mechanics by Christmas.”

    The stock market?
    Don’t be ridiculous…
    The economy shrank this last quarter and before that the economy has been dangerously sluggish…
    The jobs that have been “created” are PT ,etc. type jobs…
    Primarily because employers have uncertainty for what Obamacare and higher taxes and more regulations while energy costs soar and minimum wage hike talk will do harm to their bottom line …
    Have you read that millions have been out of work for so long that they have given up looking?
    Have you considered how many of those millions have been added to the welfare and food stamp rolls, unemployment lines.

    “Prepare yourself, Rob. You will never see the day you imagine, when all your idiot fantasies are borne out. America is not suffering under Obama, it is thriving. You will live in a future where rational, loyal, mature conservatives (who already think every single thing you’ve said on this page is utter hogwash) will know that Birferism was a concoction of lies.”

    I am preparing myself…
    You are only in denial of what are the facts…
    The stock market is not the only indicator that needs to be looked at when determining the health of the US economy…
    The exploding deficit is sooner rather than later going to implode America’s economy ( Obama LIED when he promised to cut the deficit in ½ in the first 2 years of his first term… ) …
    Again the economy shrank this last quarter and previous quarters have shown dismal growth.
    The catual unemployment rate factoring workforce participation is the highest in decades….
    So speaking of idiot fantasies …
    You have been dishing them up by the oil tanker fleet load…
    40 % of America’s electricity is acquired from coal fired plants…
    Obama’s EPA just announced more regulations which will drive plants out of business which will raise the cost and reduce the availability of energy…
    That will of course drive the cost of other goods and services up while forcing more lay offs…
    Which will further shrink the economy which will further raise the defecit because even more workers will be forced onto unemployment, food stamps and welfare which will cause tax revenues to shrink which will cause Congress to seek out new sources to tax.

    “You are embarrassing them, Rob. And thanks for that. But you rend the fabric of reason and order, to the detriment of my Country, and for that I condemn you. If you were capable of shame you would hang your head and beg forgiveness from loyal Americans, liberal and conservative alike.”

    Again with the idiot Obot fantasies…
    The Obots are ones rending the fabric of reason especially while trying toput a fresh coat of paint on the fallen down outhouse…
    The Obots despite all of the scandals and dismally performing economy buy into the cooked numbers from the lying Obama admin and mistakenly think that Obama has been nothing but good for Americans, America and the world.
    Your especially are laughably in denial as you try and paint Obama and his illegal tenure as being anything but what he and it has been!
    I am capable of shame when it is warrented…
    In the case of Obama and his being ineligible and the what that illegal tenure has actually done to Americans. America, America’s economy and her economic and security future …
    I was and still am justified in calling Obama ineligible and his illegal tenure a blight on America and her future standing in the world.
    IF Americans and America is lucky …
    Obama and Obama’s illegal admins’ blight on America can be fairly quickly erased after he is gone from office.
    The longer it takes for him and illegal admin to be gone the less likely it is that America will survive.

    “Every single fact that we claim is so will be considered true, to your increasing chagrin, for the rest of your days. Every one of your assertions will be remembered as crazy, mean-spirited and anti-American, if they are remembered at all.”

    That is just silly Obot hyperbole…
    The undeniable economic facts are rearing their ugly heads…
    America will be lucky if she goes the way of Greece.
    Obama is already being seen for what he is…
    Obamacare lies have rightfully shown that Obama is a lying con man that pushed his radical “fundamentally transform” America agenda over what was actually good for Americans, America and America’s future and Obama maliciously lying to Americans about what he knew Obamacare would cause Americans to lose…
    Which was actually freedom first along with their insurance and their doctors that they wanted to keep…
    While spying on every American while using the IRS as a political weapon, etc….
    Is only the tip of the spear aimed at America.
    The exploding deficit is now at 17+ trillion dollars…
    Revenue is not keeping pace with spending.
    A “soaring” stock market is being falsely propped up by QE band aids.
    The Obots will be lucky to remember the “I told you so’s” as they eat your last morsel of food after the economy finally implodes from that 17+ trillion dollar out of control runaway deficit .

    “So take the bet, Rob. We’ll work out the details. I am sure to win your money, because you have nothing on my President, and you never will.”

    You won’t have the money to pay up when it takes a wheelbarrow of large denomination bills just to buy a loaf of bread.
    However if you are so eager to part with your money….
    Send that money to the families of the victims Obama and Hillary left to die in Benghazi where it will actually repay those victims families for the wrongs heaped on them from the silly Obots that twice plus voted for Obama the ineligible ghoul that left Americans to die at the hands of terrorists while falsely claiming the terrorist attack was a spontaneous demonstration because of an obscure YT video even though the terrorist attack happened on the anniversary of 9-11 and after the ambassador had pleaded for beefed up security. .

    However it’s obvious that you would rather make meaningless bets over the internet even though when the stuff hits the fan…
    Neither you nor any of the other Obot pals that have been extolling the phony virtues of Obama the liar and La La Land economy that you mistakenly believe exists…
    Will have the money to even feed yourselves and your families if your silly fantasies of Obama staying in office until the end of his 2nd illegal term come to pass!

  65. Rob Ca says:

    boysmom4 says:
    June 1, 2014 at 1:15 pm
    I have to apologize for linking your fine site to an on-going birth certificate thread and discussion I have been having with “Rob” for quite a while. It seems he’s gone both barrels on this site and is regurgitating most if not all of his tired old talking points to what he considers a new audience. Just ignore him and maybe he’ll go away.”

    Too bad boysmom4 that I knew of this site before you linked it elsewhere.
    This site was in need of some actual discussion from the opposition…
    Obviously the Obots here and other Obot sites are too used to posting unchallenged Obot talking points and then guffawing at each other’s replies as they spew the Obot baloney concerning (What has to be my all time favorite Obot in denial claims… ) Obama “the fine upstanding man” and because the stock market ( That is being held up by QE band aids.) is “soaring” ,etc. as they mistakenly claim that Obama is eligible…
    According to the in denial Obots …
    “All is well and good and nothing bad can happen with Obama “at the wheel” in the Obot fantasy world.

    Way past time to issue the wake up call to the Obots in their Oaid induced sleep here!

    Maybe you can load up on some vitriol filled venom here as you tried to over at Dr C’s place as you admitted there that you just wanted to hurl insults instead of discuss? LOL

    Of course that has most likely been done via e-mail here.

  66. point3r says:

    Rob CA said:

    “No actually the Obots support a cold divisive ,filthy disgusting , un-American racist named Obama that has surrounded himself with like minded un-American ghouls that are autocratic freedom stealing despot supporting traitors.”

    What a deliciously evocative sentence. It essentially tells us everything we need to know about how rational your opinions on this President are versus the visceral revulsion that appears to be your actual driving motivations. That ejaculation of adjectives, most of which are so emotionally riven can only be explained by unreasoned rage. It certainly cannot be taken seriously as an attempt at genuine political discussion. That single sentence provides suitable basis for dismissing you entirely as an individual unworthy of attention. I know that within politics there is always a place for hyperbole. But silly contributions like yours leave hyperbole so far behind they are deserving of no response more intellectually demanding than a good belly laugh.

    At the very worst, Obama is a traditional American center-left politician (by international standards he would actually be center-right) who has promoted moderately progressive policies of a decidedly non-radical nature. When you are ready to reengage from the neck up, let us know.

  67. roxy7655 says:

    You can’t reason with traitors.

  68. point3r says:

    The facts are that everything in the article is hearsay until dragged into court as physical evidence and then authenticated in a court proceeding by acquiring the original hospital records,etc. to ascertain whether or not any of that is historically accurate for the claimed August 4,1961 DOB.

    You appear to be unclear on several concepts. The first of these is what “hearsay” means. A statement is hearsay or it is not, completely independently of whether or not a court is involved, or whether or not physical evidence exists, or whether or not authentication has taken place, or whether or not original records of anything is presented by anybody. I refer you to the Federal Rules of Evidence, specifically Article VIII (HEARSAY) and Article IX (AUTHENTICATION AND IDENTIFICATION).

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    What you will learn is that a certified copy of a birth certificate is (in the absence of rebutting evidence of equal or greater probative value) not hearsay. Instead it is absolute legal proof of the information it contains in a court of law (Rule 803(9) and Rule 902). This is also true with a verification in lieu of certification.

    Actually, and to put an even finer point on your conceptual fail, what you will find is that even the simple statement from President Obama that he was born in Hawaii (absent rebutting evidence of equal or greater probative value) would settle the issue in any court (Rule 803(19)).

    And we all know that here we are… six years into the Birther movement… and no Birther has ever been able to provide rebutting information of equal or greater probative value to the simple statement from the President that he was born in Hawaii. This is why it has been such a trivial task for Obots to assemble an unbroken sting of almost 230 courtroom wins, versus zero losses.
    We know the difference between evidence and hearsay. No court has ever demanded a copy of the President’s birth certificate simply because no Birther attorney or pro se litigant has ever presented evidence that would actually raise doubt on the President’s Hawaiian birth. While Obot lawyers have provided verifications an a couple of cases purely out of an abundance of caution, the only government authority who ever actually asked for one (AZ SOS Bennett) was not a court.

    And of course, he accepted the verification anyway.

    Until you manage what no Brther has ever managed (i.e. actually come up with a shred of admissible evidence in support of any Birther theory) this is where you are, and this is where you will stay:

    Whining about it anonymously on the Internet.

  69. RobCA said:

    The comment section in WordPress does not offer tools to differentiate between your post and my reply and I tried to bold your portions in Word however that did not carry over in my reply.

    That said the crying over “poor formatting” is just Obot spin.

    Some HTML tags such as the Blockquote function work in the WordPress comment tool. That is what I am using here. You will see other folks have figured out how to format comments. Yes, bold and italics work also if you know what you are doing.

    I am not going to spend much time answering your diatribe. I will talk about Benghazi, which Fox News and the Republican idiots in Congress are shamelessly trying to make into a scandal. Even the families of those who died have spoken out and said enough of this charade is enough. These embassy attacks have happened all too often in recent history but this is the first time that a political party has pissed on the graves of the dead by trying to make a political game out of the attack.

    Would you care to take a guess at how many attacks on our embassies occurred under President George W. Bush? How many died? When you look that up come back and defend the fact that the Republican controlled Congress cut funding for embassy security. They are investigating the wrong persons. They should look in the mirror for answers.

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