Overlay of Obama and Ah’Nee Birth Certificates Shows the Latest Cold Case Posse Forgery Theory Is Nonsense

az-central

Courtesy Arizona Central

On December 15, 2016 only two weeks before he left office Maricopa County Sheriff Joseph Arpaio hosted a third and final press conference to present the final results of the 64 month long investigation conducted by his volunteer Cold Case Posse lead by Mike Zullo. At the press conference (if you could call it that since no questions were allowed) Arpaio repeated his claim that President Obama’s long form birth certificate was a forgery. Arpaio also repeated his dubious claim that the purpose of the investigation had always been to “clear President Obama”. Cold Case Posse lead Mike Zullo conducted the rest of the presentation. During the  presentation Zullo introduced a brand new theory that the Obama long form birth certificate had been forged by using various parts of another Hawaii birth certificate belonging to Ms. Johanna Ah’Nee (now Johanna Randolph). A video produced by Birther Mark Gillar was offered as evidence to support this theory.

Zullo at the news conference and in a subsequent interview on the Hagmann and Hagmann Report radio program appeared to abandon prior claims made at the first two news conferences from 2012 that the layers in the PDF file were proof of forgery. As a matter of fact he conceded that their own tests showed that a Xerox WorkCentre could have produced the layers. He mentioned that an Italian forensic laboratory had concluded that the Obama BC PDF was generated on the type of Xerox that was used to scan the Obama tax returns in 2011.

This video was played a the December 15 news conference. It was produced and narrated by Birther Mark Gillar who has done all the previous videos for the Cold Case Posse in the birth certificate investigation.

The video claims to demonstrate nine points of forgery, namely that nine elements in the Obama BC were lifted from the Ah’Nee BC and used to make the Obama BC. First let’s look at the big picture. Zullo never says who created the so called forgery but it would have to have been someone who had access to the Ah’Nee certificate either from the archives in Hawaii or from Ms. Randolph herself. The authorized officials in Hawaii would of course have access to the archives containing all birth certificates. So if someone in the Hawaii Department of Health was the creator then out of all the thousands of 1961 birth certificates to use we the one they picked happened to be the same certificate that Ms Randolph happened to give to Miki Booth who then gave to Jerome Corsi that ultimately ended up in the hands of the Cold Case Posse in 2012. What are the chances of that happening? Why would the forger choose a certificate from a baby girl born over two weeks later? There were births in the same hospital the same day. Why not use one of those?

The only other possibility is that Ms Randolph herself was involved. We know she got her certificate in 1995 from the date seal on the back of the certificate. Although some Birthers like Douglas Vogt have made this claim Zullo doesn’t. If Johanna Randolph were involved in a conspiracy to help Obama why would she give her certificate to Birther Miki Booth where it eventually would wind up into the hands of someone trying to catch Obama in a crime?

Who was involved? How did they do it? These are the questions that real law enforcement investigators would have answered before stating a crime had been committed. This is why the CCP won’t take their findings to the Maricopa Country Attorney or any other law enforcement organization.

Did I say the theory is stupid? But wait there is more…

Let’s look at an overlay of the two certificates. It was one prepared by Doug Vogt earlier this year and shared with me by someone else.It was also previously published at the Obama Conspiracy Theories blog.  I was told that an overlay almost identical to this was prepared for the Cold Case Posse in 2012. (Click the image to view a full size version.)

Johanna Obama Overlay

I don’t know how anyone could reasonably conclude that one certificate was used to make the other. What we can conclude is that the typist used a similar or the same typewriter with tabs stops set to center the entries in the fields. This would make sense since the same person in the same office probably prepared birth certificates at Kapi’olani Hospital in 1961.

Note in box 6b, which is one of the five elements that Gillar claimed were copied over together from the Ah’Nee certificate. You can see in this overlay they aren’t the same. Kevin Davidson at Obama Conspiracy Theories also pointed out that even in the fuzzy video you could see this wasn’t the case:

image image

You can clearly see the “Oahu” in the Obama certificate on the left has a vertically displaced upper case “O”. Anyone who has ever typed on a typewriter knows how that happens.

Kevin used the better images available to show the differences even more dramatically:

imageimage

So right away we can see that the CCP theory falls short on the first claim.

Kevin Davidson also published an analysis by an anonymous commenter who looked at the so called nine points of forgery. (Click on the picture for a full sized image).

Boxes

This author also examined the claim that the date stamps were copied over because they were the placed at same angles on each certificate. First Gillar leaves out one small fact in the video. The dates aren’t the same! Let me repeat that. They are claiming someone copied over the dates and had to carefully change the day of the month but didn’t bother to change the angle. There is also the issue that there is no evidence that the PDF was ever touched by Photoshop or any other photo editing software. Again click on the image for the full sized version.

Date Stamp

While the angles are close they are not the same. Also, trying to determine precise angles on fuzzy, pixelated images is just guesswork. We have run into this kind of flawed analysis before with Paul Irey.

Edit: It occurred to me this morning just how absurd Gillar’s claims are. In the video the claimed that elements from the Ah’Nee certificate were “digitally copied over”. The question is “Digitally copied over to exactly what?” If the Obama birth certificate is a forgery then where did the form with all the boxes come from? Was another certificate used and then tiny pieces from the Ah’Nee certificate were copied on to that? Why would someone do that? If the Ah’Nee certificate was the base document why are there so many differences? If this mysterious forger had a copy of a blank form they could have just used an old Underwood  typewriter and filled out most of the items.

So one has to ask. Why would the Cold Case Posse come out with such an easily debunked new theory after 64 months of the investigation? I think the answer is obvious. This investigation had been run using the name and prestige of Sheriff Joe Arpaio. Arpaio lost his bid for reelection in November. The newly elected Maricopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone is on record as saying the birth certificate investigation will end when he takes office. Mike Zullo admitted on Mike Volin’s WOBC radio show the other night that the investigation had ended as far as the sheriff’s office was concerned.

Therefore the Cold Case Posse was desperate to put out something and claim victory. Their earlier evidence had been ripped to shreds. The layers were explained by the Xerox WorkCentre experiments. Zullo had been caught using the wrong race codes in an earlier Gillar video. The Selective Service application card was a sideshow from the start and went no where. After all, the Selective Service registration card was obtained from the Bush administration in October 2008 even before Barack Obama took office.

Also, Zullo had gotten sidetracked for almost two years by conman Dennis Montgomery chasing imaginary conspiracies involving federal Judge Murray Snow and  members of the Department of Justice.  Zullo had to invoke the Fifth Amendment hundreds of times when he testified before Judge Snow in the Melendres v Arpaio racial profiling case. The big March 2014 reveal of Universe Shattering Evidence had to be postponed indefinitely. With only two weeks to go in Arpaio’s term and President Obama leaving office in a month the Ah’Nee certificate was all that was left.

The latest nonsense from the Cold Case Posse is what you would expect when someone is desperate and is trying to promote a falsehood.

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166 Responses to Overlay of Obama and Ah’Nee Birth Certificates Shows the Latest Cold Case Posse Forgery Theory Is Nonsense

  1. stevor says:

    Though you won’t want to discuss it because it’s not exactly the topic of this article, when will o’bama reveal his college transcripts and other documents? Why is there a need to keep them sealed still?

    • COMALite J says:

      #1, They’re not sealed. They’re private, which is not the same thing. “Sealed” is a specific legal term with a specific legal meaning. “Sealing” a document means that it’s a document that would otherwise be public knowledge but whose contents have been sealed by a court order, usually because it would impact a case currently being adjudicated.

      #2, Because they’re none of your nor our business. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that the President has to have attended college. S/he only has to be a natural born citizen and age 35 or older as of inauguration day. That’s it. Those are the only Constitutionally mandated qualifications for the office of the Presidency (or Vice Presidency).

      Everyone’s college transcripts, medical records, etc. are private, which is not the same thing as being sealed. I can’t get access to yours, you can’t get access to mine. Nobody can without a legitimate need-to-know, such as a prospective employer with your prior permission in the act of applying for a job, requesting your transcripts to verify that the education qualifications you listed on your résumé are indeed valid.

      And before you talk about Bush’s transcripts, he didn’t release those of his own free will. A muckraking journalist obtained them under false pretenses.

      And now that we have your pathetic attempt at red herring out of the way, care to address the actual topic of this article? When are you going to admit to yourself and us that you wasted the last eight years of your life believing a lie?

    • gorefan says:

      Call the registrars at any of the colleges Trump attended and have them send you his records. If they refuse then what is he hiding? Foreign birth?

    • Maybe you can go to Chicago and see if they’re in his presidential library in a few years. College records aren’t sealed. They’re protected by federal law going back to the carter years.

  2. gorefan says:

    Almost all of the typed entries on the two certificates line up vertically. The obvious reason is that they were done on the same or similar typewriter (IMO an Underwood). The left lateral paper guide would control the horizontal letter spacing and how the paper was grabbed by the feed rollers would govern the vertical line spacing.

    • Curious says:

      I agree that the typewriter used to create both documents was an Underwood. The font is clearly from the family of Underwood typewriters. Also, the font is a pica, 10 characters per inch. That permits the accurate measurements of all of the graphic elements of the original, typed documents (not the copy that bears the Registrar’s stamp). What is curious is that on the Obama LFBC, the first 12 characters on the second line of typed entries, are all uniformly shifted to the LEFT approximately 0.05″ (one half space). If they had been shifted to the right, you might assume that the typewriter had a half-space key that was inadvertently struck before the typist began making entries on the second line. Note also, where the correction of this monopitch anomaly occurs on the same line. I am having serious problems with this 12-character misalignment and correction. Virtually all of the other typed characters fit neatly into the 1/10th inch monopitch columns. If you study this with AI at about 600 magnification, you will see the issue.

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  4. Sorry, but these random anonymous mspaint analysis on the BCs you have are ridiculously unprofessional and inconclusive.

    • I agree…
      Its obvious this is amateur work byRC Radio Blog not backed up by any forensic science.

      They haven’t debunked that Obama’s BC is a fraud.

    • COMALite J says:

      Really? Then, please, do tell, why the typed “O” in “Oahu” in box 6B is shifted up slightly from the baseline on Obama’s birth certificate (as early 1960s-era mechanical or even electric hammer-type typewriters often did) but not on Ah’Nee’s. Note also that that “O” is noticeably lighter than the rest of the word on Obama’s but not on Ah’Nee’s.

      If the one was copied from the other as Mr. Gillar alleges, then those should be pixel-for-pixel identical, and they’re not even identical to the naked eye even in Zullo’s own blurry video!

      Don’t take my word for it, nor this blog’s. I insist that you do not take our word for this! See it for yourself!! Go directly to Gillar’s very own video (it’s the same one embedded here, but I know you may not trust that even though it’s not possible for a website to alter an embedded YouTube video without changing its URL) on his very own “PNN News and Ministry Network (www.ppsimmons.com)” YouTube channel, and pause at around 01:30 (while both certificates are shown side-by-side in close-up but before he drags the items from the Ah’Nee certificate to the Obama one). View it at 720p HD (the highest supported in at least the streams available to Google Chrome — if your browser goes higher, then use that), either in Theater Mode (YouTube large video window if 720p) or full-screen (preferred at any resolution). See for yourself with your own eyeballs.

      Here, I’ll make it easy for you: click here to go straight there. Pause immediately because I have it cued up to 01:30 for you, just so you have no excuse not to do this.

      And while you’re at it, look at the positions of both “X”s in the checkboxes on both certificates. They do not match up. Not even close.

  5. Katie Jones says:

    The point to this whole thing is we got his birth certificate AT THE HOSPITAL IN KENYA and IT IS CERTIFIED. This one has never appeared in Hawaii Human services or any other place in America not the Hospital etc. YET we got a certified copy at the HOSPITAL IN KENYA with NO TROUBLE!!! That is the real point here. One country has it and one country does not! That is the real point to this whole problem. There is NO CERTIFIED COPY OF OBAMA”S IN AMERICA to be had and this one is not it.

    • The Kenyan birth certificate was prepared by a convicted forger. Kenya says Obama was not born there. Hawaii has said several times that he was born there. There are tons of supporting evidence (like contemporary newspaper accounts) that support the fact he was born there. Both copies of Obama’s Hawaii birth certificates are certified.

      Forger Lucas Smith who claims to have obtained his POSLFBC in Kenya can’t even produce any evidence he was ever there. There are several obvious errors on Smith’s forgery.

      What do you mean by WE got the birth certificate? Did you go to Kenya?

      I could go on but let’s hear what contradictory evidence you have.

    • OK Katie are you going to defend your comment or are you just a drive by troll?

    • No you didn’t. You got a birth certificate from a convicted forger and con artist from Cedar Rapids Iowa. It wasn’t certified by Kenya and wasn’t issued by the hospital. The administrator’s name on it is misspelled and the wrong administrator was named on it. Lucas was also so lazy he didn’t even put Barack Obama’s Sr’s full birthdate on it he only put the year. Meanwhile the issuing authority of birth certificates in Hawaii has verified the birth certificate.

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  7. Mark Bellison says:

    If you overlay Susan Nordyke’s certificate onto Gretchen Nordyke’s, you find that like the Obama/Ah’Nee certificates, some entries overlap. It has to do with the fact they were typed on possibly the same manual typewriter, not because they were cut and pasted.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DTWpeMgV4AEchY2?format=jpg

    • Thanks Mark. I could imagine that typing birth certificates would have been the job of one or two clerks in an office using the same typewriter at Kapi’olani Hospital. I few years ago I looked at the hand full of birth certificates that had been published for births at Kapi’olani around that time and certain letters on some of them seemed to be displaced horizontally. On the old typewriters the type-bar arms could get bent over time (I assume from jams where two keys were struck simultaneously or just from general use).

      The problem is that most of the images like the Nordyke certificates were too fuzzy to be useful for that kind of detail.

      I will never forget when Ed Hale interviewed Mrs. Nordyke. He had the gall to ask her if she remembered a black baby in the nursery while she was there giving birth to her twins.

      • Mark Bellison says:

        I agree the resolution of the Nordyke images is poor if looking for fine detail but look at it in even a general way, you can see where entries overlap each other and ones that don’t. For example the name of the father, the first and middle names “Robert Allen” don’t appear to off but the last name Nordyke is clearly offset. Same thing for the three boxes on the right race of father, usual occupation and race of mother. The first one “Caucasian” doesn’t show any offset, “Private Practice” looks to be offset by three spaces and final the second “Caucasian” appears to off by only one space.

        • Yes, for word placement in the fields and content the images are fine.

          • Mark Bellison says:

            And that is exactly why when you overlay the two Nordyke twins’ certificates onto each other, you can see where entries overlap and where they are offset. The point is that several of the entries overlap in the same way that Zullo insists some of the Ah’Nee entries overlap the Obama entries.

            If typing on a standardized form on the same or similar typewriter results in random overlap of entries then Zullo’s insistence that it is due to copying and pasting is dead wrong (which everyone already knew).

            That’s all I was trying to say.

  8. Mark Bellison says:

    Meanwhile over at Circa:
    https://www.circa.com/story/2018/01/11/politics/joe-arpaio-says-barack-obama-birth-certificate-a-forgery-document

    Gillar shows up in the comments. He responded to me with a rather long rant:

    Does the 7655 explain why the X in box 6D from Johanna Ah’Nee’s birth certificate was cut and pasted into both Box 6D and &E on Obama’s? Does the 7655 explain why the date stamp in Johanna Ah’Nee’s LFBC in Box 20 is also placed at the exact same angle in Box 20 of Obama’s LFBC? No it does not. Does the 7655 explain why the rightmost date stamp in Box 22 in the Ah’nee LFBC also appears in Box 22 of the Obama LFBC in Box 22? No it does not.

    Does the 7655 explain why vital statistics coding found under the clipping mask does not appear on the Guthrie or Applewhite photos? No it does not. Does the 7655 even explain the size of the clipping mask placed on the Obama LFBC PDF? No it does not.

    Does the 7655 explain why Onaka’s “certification” doesn’t even verify Obama’s actual birth date. Does explain why Onaka forced a subordinate to initial his stamp? No it does not.

    The State of Hawaii was asked a simple question, is what Obama posted on the white house website the same birth certificate you have on file. It was a simple yes or no question. Instead of answering it, they came back with some crap about having information in their files (plural) that supports the information on the document Obama posted and that this information was part of the original record. The original record part sounds impressive until you investigate Hawaiian Law and realize that anything amended to the record becomes part of the original record.
    While the 7655 does explain some of the computer anomalies, it does not explain them all. It truly doesn’t matter though. There is enough old school forensic evidence to make this an open and shut case.

    I’ll conclude that by pointing out that even though Doug Vogt didn’t use the proper alignment technique when aligning the docs, the stamp overlays in his unsealed affidavit were closely aligned enough to make Dr. C think he was looking at only two stamps instead of four. Given what a thorough researcher he is (LOL) that must mean those stamps are pretty close to be the exact same angles. A near impossibility given that the LFBCs were stamped 16 days apart. The Nordyke Twins were stamped minutes if not seconds apart exhibit no such similarities.

    To keep this clear, please explain why the Xs in Box 6D and 7E match the X in Box 6D from the Ah’Nee perfectly. Please explain why the left and right date hand placed stamps on Obama’s LFBC match their counterparts from the Ah’Nee perfectly. The fact is you can’t. The 7655 isn’t going to bail you out on this one. Old school forensics will rule the day.

    And as for incompetence, please ask Dr. C why the looked at four stamps in Vogt’s work and though he was only looking at two. In doing so, he pretty much confirmed that the date stamps are very closely aligned between the Obama and Ah’Nee. After pointing this out on Mike Volin’s radio show, he (Dr. C) went back and removed it without mention of his ever being wrong, but I have a screen shot of the orignal. He did the same thing regarding my reference to Kurt Tsue on Volin’s show. Very classy.

    We’ve had these forensic red flags verified by well-respected forensic experts on two contintinets, from two separate forensic disciplines. We also own a 7655 and backdated the software to 2011. We know exactly which anomalies can and can’t be created by the 7655. You have a cowboy who is a self-appointed expert on everything from DOD Date Stamps to reasons for granting immunity. You also have a computer repair man who has declared bankruptcy. Good luck with that. You’ll need it.

    And I responded to him with an equal long rant:

    “Does the 7655 explain why the X in box 6D … Box 6D and &E [sic] on Obama’s?

    They aren’t. A close look at them shows they are not the same. And not even close when compared to the AP copy.

    “Does the 7655 explain why the date stamp … exact same angle in Box 20 of Obama’s LFBC? ”

    Doesn’t have to as “Old school forensics” does. many of the available Hawaiian BC certificates have stamps at the same angles as the Obama certificate.

    “Does the 7655 explain why vital statistics coding …does not appear on the Guthrie or Applewhite photos?”

    No vital statistic coding appears under the clipping mask. All coding appears associated with specific fields of data. Your smudges are not associated with any data. In fact your smudges appear completely outside the birth certificate box that contains the birth information. The smudges you call vital statistic codes do not appear on the Guthrie or Applewhite images nor on any other Hawaiian birth certificate. The smudges are artifacts caused by the scanning process. Just like the white dots that appear on two of the layers.

    “Does the 7655 even explain the size of the clipping mask placed on the Obama LFBC PDF?”

    No, that is explained by preview and the individual Mac’s printer settings.

    “Does the 7655 explain why Onaka’s “certification” doesn’t even verify Obama’s actual birth date.”

    Hawaiian law on letters of verification explains that. Hint, his birth date is part of the application and by law is verified when a letter of verification is generated.

    “Does explain why Onaka forced a subordinate to initial his stamp?’

    Pure speculation and ignorance of what is commonly known as authorized designees.

    “We’ve had these forensic red flags verified by well-respected forensic experts on two contintinets, from two separate forensic disciplines.”

    Neither of these “experts” has come forward and verified your claims. In fact their reports have been hidden from the public. This can only be due to your experience with your previous experts being laughed at and shown to be idiots.

    “And as for incompetence” …

    You never answered my questions about the cert. number being out of sequence, the pencil number “9” or the multiple 8-bit layers. Those were all based on incompetence.

    “We also own a 7655 and backdated the software to 2011. We know exactly which anomalies can and can’t be created by the 7655.”

    But you do not have the critical source document used to create the White House PDF. And every time you create a new PDF with the same document and the same 7655 you get a different results. That alone should be a big red flag to you.

    “You have a cowboy …a computer repair man who has declared bankruptcy.

    You are forgetting Professor Richardo de Queiroz who developed MRC for Xerox.

    He seems to be quite upset with Dr. C. and John Woodman.

    • Excellent reply! I haven’t seen Mark Gillar for a while. I left a couple of comments there. His “All the Obots are going to jail” video is a classic.

      • Urban says:

        Everything you said and the above dumbass said is totally discredited.
        The experts proved it was a digital fabrication plus I know AAI, compression and printers don’t produce computer writing, a wrong sequenced to date numbering, and perfect cut and past placement, LINKS, or, LAYERS IN SUCH A FASHION.
        You are clearly a loq IQ shill site and considering the hysterical fraud of the original COLB and your inane arguments have all been refuted its pretty sad. The excellent presentation by a real expert with Maricopa County Sheriff’s office and other professional named on record forensic experts proved 9 points of forgery you can’t argue with it. Problem is I know digital fabrication. Why don’t you contact them and talk to them you claim they “haven’t” come foward that is lie, they are easily reachable and they have been interviewed, the media refused to check, they knew they were fucked.

        OH BTW WHY WAS IMAGE ALWAYS A GREEN PATTERNED BACKGROUND AFTER THE DAMN “BORDER” OF THE FAKE “:BOOK DOCUMENT” ETERNAL? LOL You fucking spergs are hysterical, you present no counter arguments because you can’t argue with facts You pretend talking about a few small things that you misrepresent and ignoring the big points. Such as the perfectly lifting and pasting of of a massive perfectly aligned portion of the source doc.

        http://danhlamthangcanh.info/online-B5IuArPw71bwUj2

        Fact when scanning in any printer that gives a PDF option it makes one layer, backgroung white template and the scanned document-1layer, Never would any other layer ors sophistaced, placed, intricate sub layers be created. Also no Links.

        BTW I’ve tried reproducing the result using the “fake fall back story” used by you autistic lying dumbasses. One layer no links, no sublayers nothing. “Digital Compression” LMAO

        Your incessant spastic lies show you are nothing but Low IQ shills, there is no “document” no one has been allowed to see it why don’t you explain why the COLB was an admitted MSPaint shitfest with a non existent then magical floating “seal”? Explain why Hawaii refused to allow professional decade long serving LEO’s to access the physical Vault BC that never existed? Why did the courts lie and claim US Citizens have no standing in court against a unverified fake ass illegal alien in the WH? Your lack of transparency, sperginess, and stonewalling for years along with a shit ass MSPAINT hoax brought the BC issue on, and sure enough it was lame AAI fabrication based on stolen parts of online BC’s. Clearly the timeline of events proves that, and the fact you have to make up so much ludicrous shit just is hysterical.

        http://www.reedwrite.com/ BTW lol Contact him yourself

        Still no real near 60 year old piece of paper has ever been produced, and faking a story about one lone little “journohack” entering into a secret room to see the mythical “bc” is absurd bullshit. I have my Grandpas BC from 1925.

        So in conclusion you can’t argue

        9 points
        Layers
        Links
        Rotation of the links
        Impossible Number and Date Sequencing based on birth number and DOB
        Subterfuge
        Previous admitting hoax laughable bullshit conducted by Annenberg’s “FactCheck” a criminal pedophile mob organization

        • Mark Bellison says:

          Wow, English not your first language?

          Zullo said you are wrong. In his December press conference he confirmed that a Xerox WorkCenter copier/scanner produces a PDF with multiple layers.

          And here is a real expert’s opinion on the PDF. Notice he’s not afraid to publish his results.

          https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/428-After-Birth.html

          As for Reed Hayes, perhaps you missed his conclusions:

          “In short, there are indications that the Obama Certificate of Live Birth released by the White House in April 2011 may be a manufactured document or perhaps even an outright forgery. But without examining the original document housed at the Hawaii Department of Health, there can be no absolute certainty.”

          “may be a manufactured document or perhaps even an outright forgery” “[M]ay be” and “perhaps” are weasel words.

          • I should have left Urban’s comment in the Trash where it was initially placed for profanity. There are so many stupid and false statements in his post it is be hard to know where to begin. To claim that scanners don’t produce PDF’s with layers is completely false. Not all do but Xerox Workcentres definitely do.

            One way to find documents that demonstrate this is to do a Google search with this search string: “”Scanned from a Xerox multifunction device” filetype:pdf” (Remove the outermost quotation marks.) You will get many hits, for example this one:

            https://www.ipma-hr.org/docs/default-source/public-docs/importdocuments/node-documents/30355-scanned-from-a-xerox-multifunction-device

            It is a four page document. When you open the first page in Adobe Illustrator you will find it has 6 layers and an overall clipping mask. It also happens to have halos around the letters AND it was opened and saved in Preview on a Mac just like the Obama LFBC. Check the file properties when it is opened in Adobe to view. It’s constructed exactly like the Obama LFBC PDF.

            What’s interesting is that I found this document while writing this comment! Thanks Urban. This was a great find and I owe it all to you!

            Here is a screenshot of what you will see in Illustrator.

            • Mark Bellison says:

              Here is another one from the Lowry Redevelopment Authority. NBC originally used a different Lowry PDF (no longer on available) in the Xerox analysis. It has halos and multiple layers. On the second page is the signature of Montgomery C. Force. Check out the loops in his signature. When you turn off the second layer (the white in the loops) there is color underneath. Cool example of what birthers called x-ray vision.

              http://lowryredevelopment.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/lowry_redevelopment_authority_cover_letter.pdf

              • I remember that one. I think he also found another PDF that was created on a Xerox WorkCenter and run through Preview. The one I found yesterday is the first one I have personally run across.

                • Mark Bellison says:

                  The new one has a different scaling. While the two to one ratio is the same, the 1-bit layers are scaled at 36% and the 8-bit layers are scaled at 72%. The Lowry and White House PDFs are at 24 and 48%.

                  Is this due to a file size setting in the Xerox?

                • I don’t know. Maybe it has something to do with the particular model? Could be the settings though. I seem to recall there is a setting for the file size on the model I played with.

                  I don’t have the low level tools required to extract the JPG layer. I would like to see if the comment strings “YCbCr” or “linearGray” that we have seen in every Xerox scanned document. The problem with files saved in Preview is that the JPG object is compressed using Flate so you can’t just open it in a text viewer like Word or Worpad and search for strings.

        • COMALite J says:

          Ya know, Urban, I was gonna do a point-by-point rebuttal of everything (and I do mean everything) mentioned in your comment, despite its horrific and often unclear grammar and spelling such as:

          … plus I know AAI …

          …and sure enough it was lame AAI fabrication…

          What is this “AAI” you speak of? Did you mean Adobe Illustrator? Because that’s just AI, not AAI (even the filename extension of an Adobe Illustrator artwork file is “.ai”). If you don’t even know that much, it doesn’t speak well for your claimed “knowledge of fabrication.”

          But anyway, I’m not gonna bother with further rebuttals, because you linked to a blog called “danhlamthangcanh.info” to try to back up your claims. The particular page you linked has a video (not a YouTube, despite the blog illegally using Google¤s trademarked YouTube logo as its “favicon” [the tiny 16×16 icon that appears in the browser tab on most modern browsers — RC Radio Blog just uses WordPress’s default favicon of a white stylized “W” on a cyan disc with a thin white inline]). I was going to debunk the video (which was the old “layers” B.S.) using time-points in the video itself, but then some things popped out at me thanks to my browser’s plugins that protects me from hacks:

          I looked at the HTML source code of that page. It has links to “yandex.ru” and loads JavaScript or a tracking image (as a fallback if JavaScript is disabled) from there (in lines 37 & 44, respectively). Yandex is the Russian equivalent of Google or Bing, and any domain ending in “.ru” is registered in Russia as that is the TLD (Top-Level Domain) assigned to Russia by the international Internet domain registry (ICANN). The particular service being used is Yandex’s “Metrika” (marketed as “Metrica” in the West) equivalent of Google Analytics. That in and of itself isn’t hackery, but why would an American blogger be using a Russian tech firm’s analytics service instead of something like Google Analytics?

          It gets worse. It also loads suspicious JavaScript code from a domain called, and I kid you not: “lie4anyone.com” (line 1, which is a really long line and you have to scroll some horizontally to see it). That domain is currently registered to a hidden name, but was until recently in the name of “Yury Sobolev of Lottex Inc” in Belize City, Belize. It was created on February 28, 2017 by an unknown registrant and transferred to Mr. “Sobolev” on April 14, 2018 — less than two months ago. The same guy also owns “lie2anyone.com”. Sobolev owns lots of suspicious-looking domains, all of which were assigned to him (?) in early 2018.

          It’s possible that that happened because of hacking (injected HTML), but it may also mean that “danhlamthangcanh.info” is itself a Russian troll / bot farm site. So I decided to look further, to see what other evidence I could fiind.

          It certainly takes great pains to hide its identity (more so than one would expect the operator of such a cheesy blog to even know to do, let alone how to do). I had to go to ICANN’s own WHOIS to get it to return any results (other common WHOIS services were coming up empty). This is what it returned:

          Domain Name: DANHLAMTHANGCANH.INFO
          Registry Domain ID: D503300000086002704-LRMS
          Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.reg.com
          Registrar URL: http://www.reg.com
          Updated Date: 2018-05-30T20:32:37Z
          Creation Date: 2018-03-31T08:26:54Z
          Registry Expiry Date: 2019-03-31T08:26:54Z
          Registrar Registration Expiration Date:
          Registrar: Limited Liability Company “Registrar of domain names REG.RU”
          Registrar IANA ID: 1606
          Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@reg.ru
          Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +7.4955801111
          Reseller:
          Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
          Registrant Organization: Privacy Protection
          Registrant State/Province:
          Registrant Country: RU
          Name Server: NICOLE.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
          Name Server: CARTER.NS.CLOUDFLARE.COM
          DNSSEC: unsigned

          Okay, note that the domain registrar (the firm that actually issued the domain) is also based in Russia, ending in “.ru” and that the “Registrant Country” (meaning where the person or entity that registered the domain resides or is based) is “RU” which again is the globally accepted standard two-letter abbreviation for Russia and no other country, just as “US” would be for the USA or “UK” would be for the United Kingdom, etc.

          So this site itself is now proven to be Russia-based, not just using Russia’s Yandex Metrika analytics service.

          There’s lots more evidence. The video, while not a YouTube video, appears to be pirated from there, some really old Birther video from way back when “layers” was still a thing. The other articles linked on that page are likewise Birther and other stuff that would further conspiracy hypotheses (I won’t dignify them with the lofty term “theory” — even “hypothesis is far more than they deserve), and we now know that the Russians have been pushing such stuff on blogs and social media deliberately to try to tear this nation apart.

          So, Urban, did you merely unwittingly fall for Russian anti-American cyberwarfare propaganda, or are you in on it yourself? You’ve left yourself no other options here.

          Let’s find out, shall we? Reality Check, I do believe you can use your WordPress Admin powers on this blog to find out the IP address of people posting here. You could look up Urban’s and run it through a GeoIP site to track it back to its nation of origin. Or maybe it would turn out that Urban is using a proxy or VPN, which itself would be suspicious for someone who seems to be so astoundingly ignorant to be able to do.

        • Pete says:

          There are plenty of people around who have the expertise to patiently refute your various ignorant and specious claims.

          But let’s cut to the chase, because the time has long passed when there was the slightest point in doing so. All of the bullshit you posted – every single point along with literally hundreds more – has been thoroughly disproved, not just once, but again and again and again. By real experts (both amateur and professional) who – unlike you – actually have a clue what the fuck they’re talking about.

          In fact, it hasn’t just been thoroughly disproved, every single point has been beaten the hell to death.

          And then beaten the hell to death about thirty more times after that.

          The fact that you’re utterly ignorant of even the most basic facts regarding the claims you promote, and yet imagine in your fevered, syphilitic brain that you’re some kind of patriotic genius, isn’t our problem, Jack, it’s yours.

          But let me generously give you a clue. Here’s a good place to start. Try http://www.obamaconspiracy.org. There you will find tens of thousands of pages of rational discussion on every point you mentioned, and far more.

          Of course, you will reject every rational thought and every rational argument, because reality isn’t what you want to believe. But, if you had the necessary attention span and intelligence, you would find there facts that would give you an education.

          Since you don’t, let me give you a couple of alternate web sites that may be more suitable to your taste and intellectual capability:

          https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/
          https://www.kimkardashianwest.com/

          • Pete, your comment got snared by a spam filter. I approved it just now. I love the links you posted. They are appropriate for Urban.

            • Pete says:

              I apologize for the rude attitude. But frankly, I don’t think this guy deserves anything else.

              • Agreed. He contributed nothing and has fled the scene.

                • COMALite J says:

                  S/he did contribute one thing: now we have directly observed hard evidence that the Russians are involved in promoting Birtherism (as we know they are in so many other divisive issues as part of a plot to tear this nation apart), thanks to the link s/he provided to back up her ludicrous and long-refuted claims.

                  S/he him/herself appears to have been a mere dupe rather than a Russian troll or bot since RC traced the IP address to a major ISP in the USA, but I wonder if this person now realizes that s/he’s been unwittingly committing treason as defined in the second definition thereof provided in Article III §3 of the U.S. Constitution, by promoting and spreading the propaganda of and thus providing aid and comfort to our enemies?

                • He showed up on my YouTube channel earlier this week and left a couple of comments on one of my videos as “Urban Moving”. https://youtu.be/EFnXfYh7TBI

                  He appears to be a conspiracy fruitcake. He is pushing the Operation Backyard Brawl nonsense going on in Tucson. Why do we have so many idiots in our country?

        • I find this whole claim of yours curious: “Impossible Number and Date Sequencing based on birth number”

          How can you at the same time claim the 9 points is legit while at the same time ignoring that the Johanna Ah’nee certificate doesn’t follow the number and date sequencing that the clown posse stated. Ah’nee was born two weeks after Obama and the Nordykes but has a much lower birth certificate number. According to you that’s impossible. The 9 points also don’t align exactly as the clown posse said. If you overlay the two certificates they don’t match. Further the race coding theory that Zullo mentioned was also destroyed by the Ah’nee document. But here’s one further. Open up the Ah’nee PDF listed on Orly’s Taitz site in Illustrator and see what you come up with.

          http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Johanna-BC.pdf

          • COMALite J says:

            The numbering sequence is yet another example of how Birther “evidences of forgery” turn out to not only not be evidence of forgery, but actually evidence that it wasn’t forged — evidence against their claims.

            A digital forger (since they claim the layers and such prove that it was done on a computer using Photoshop or Illustrator or some such) would likely know all about how to use Photoshop or Illustrator to construct such a forgery, but not likely to know how the number sequencing of early 1960s-era Hawaiian birth certificates worked, nor about Bates® auto-incrementing stamps. Such a forger would likely have the same modern thinking that led the Birthers to assume that the stamps would’ve been numbered in birth-order sequence since that’s how it would be done today using digital technology, and so, if they had come across the Ah’Nee Nordyke Twins’ certificates to use as a model, would’ve numbered Obama’s to match birth-order sequence instead of alphabetical-by-last-name-within-the-same-month sequence as we now know they did back then.

            Other examples include the “different fonts” and “kerning” claims. Anyone who knows the basics of how scanners work would know why different instances of the same letter in the same printed font would scan with different pixel patterns. If they were all identical, that would be evidence of forgery, since it would indicate that the text had been typed in Photoshop or some such. Likewise, the “kerning” was actually mechanical “slop” common to manual (or even electric) hammer-type typewriters back then (to be specific, the hammers bouncing off the diagonal-shaped [“_/ _”] platen guide and thus being shifted a bit horizontally — the specific letter “kerning pair” claimed by the guy who first brought this up, namely, “a” and “p”, are on opposite ends of the typewriter keyboard and so would be most affected by this, in opposite directions — exactly as we see on the Obama certificate), and if the letters did line up perfectly, that would be evidence of forgery since, again, it’d be what would happen were the text typed in some auto-morphing typewriter-simulation font in Photoshop or some such.

  9. Curious says:

    I have independently overlaid the Ah-Nee LFBC on the Obama LFBC. The alleged 9 matches do NOT exist. The Zullo/Arpaio claim that they do is false. What is most disturbing is that Zullo and Arpaio infer that Reed Hayes and FORLABS agree with their findings. Zullo and Arpaio will not release the reports that Hayes and FORLABS prepared. Why? They infer that both support their assertion of 9 (nine) exact matches (“textural juxtapositions”) between the two documents. I have personally contacted FORLABS in Italy and they (correctly) claim that Zullo/Arpaio own their work product and that only they (Zullo/Arpaio) can make their findings public. As with the many anomalies produced by the Xerox Workcentre, this latest claim of “proof of forgery” fails miserably.
    IMO, there are several remaining anomalies that have not been thoroughly research and refuted. They include: a) the white dots at the top and bottom of the document; b) the vertical and horizontal displacement of the first 12 typed characters on line 2 of the LFBC. Additionally, the left margin (gutter) curvature of the horizontal form lines on the Obama LFBC is inconsistent with those of other LFBCs that were converted to microform (film or microfiche). It appears that that the proffered Obama LFBC was NOT the result of a bound volume of documents being opened, laid on the glass of a copier and printed on green basket-weave Simpson security paper. It appears to be a copy of a photograph (presumably microfilm) copied onto green security paper and then certified by the State Registrar.
    Note that the wording of the State Registrar’s certification: “I CERTIFY THAT IS IS A TRUE COPY OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE IN THE HAWAII STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.”
    This ambiguous wording “OR ABSTRACT OF THE RECORD ON FILE” means that the document being certified MAY NOT BE a “true copy” of the original long-form birth certificate on file. The Registrar’s certification on copies of long-form birth certificates created in the 60s did not have this ambiguous wording. I do not consider this “sinister.” I consider the current ambiguity convenient for the likelihood that Obama’s proffered LFBC was “created” and is (literally) an “abstract of the record on file in the Hawaii State Department of Health.” Just as Dr. Alvin Onaka certified.
    Perhaps the most compelling circumstantial evidence that the proffered Obama LFBC is a forgery is the fact that qualified independent researchers have not been permitted to examine the original Obama LFBC that ostensibly is still archived in Hawaii. The only way to settle the question of authenticity is to have the original documents (paper and microform) examined by qualified experts. Why won’t Obama and the State of Hawaii permit that? If the documents are legitimate, they have nothing to fear. Until then…

    • I will add more later but I wanted to address your comment on the registrar stamp which is just ludicrous. The stamp is the standard stamp that is used on all Hawaii birth certificates. They didn’t create a special one for Obama’s long form certificate, which was a copy. The standard birth certificate issued by Hawaii is an abstract of data from the DoH database of digitized birth records. The same stamp was used on Obama’s short form issued in 2007.

      • Curious says:

        Ludicrous? Really?! The certification stamp currently being used is NOT the stamp that was used in the 60s and 70s when copies of LFBCs were made. I am not (and did not) suggesting that the currently used stamp was fabricated for Obama’s LFBC — as you suggest above. Without question, the stamp was created — probably when the HDOH converted to microfilm — to acknowledge the fact that what they were certifying was not a copy of the ORIGINAL LFBC (paper) document (as they did in the 60s and 70s). We’re talking past each other, RC.

        • COMALite J says:

          Curious, do you really not understand that the certification stamp is used only on certified copies of the Certificate of Live Birth (“long form”) or certified printouts of the Certification of Live Birth (“short form” aka “abstract”) of birth certificates at the time the copies or abstracts are made and are not used on the vault original birth certificate at nor shortly after the time of the birth? Nor are they used on the microfilmed copies of the Certificate of Live Birth used for internal filing and to generate future certified copies of the Certificate of Live Birth?

          For Pete’s sake, Obama’s “long form” was dated as to when it was stamped! Look to the left of the signature stamp, and you’ll see another rubber stamp impression: this one of a mechanical date stamp (we to this day refer to, for instance, the “May 21, 2018 at 7:21 pm” on your WordPress comment as a “datestamp” for this very reason, just as we refer to your Email incoming storage as an “Inbox” because office workers really did have physical inboxes and outboxes on their desks for stuff they were supposed to work on, and which they would put the completed work to be sent on to their supervisor or the next person in the workflow, respectively). See what it says? “April 25, 2011” — two days before the April 27, 2011 press conference when Obama released it to the media.

          So what, pray tell, do the 60s and 70s have to do with the stamps!? They weren’t stamped then!

          Oh, and I said that if you posted again without linking to a datestamped (heh) comment by you dated before Obama was running for President, in which you expressed every bit as much concern about the fact that George W. Bush or William J. “Bill” Clinton or George H.W. Bush or whoever was President at the time had not shown a birth certificate and thus proven (in your eyes) his Natural Born Citizenship, or at least admitted that you cannot, that that would be taken as an implied concession of complete and utter defeat. Yet you posted again anyway, without doing either.

          I’ll give you another chance since it looks like my comment was moderated, so I can’t be sure when it actually appeared. Don’t post here (or anywhere else) again without doing one or the other. Either show us concern from you at the time about the lack of Bush’s (or Clinton’s) birth certificate, or admit that you cannot.

        • You are the one who is confused. First, there is no evidence the Obama LFBC was copied from a microfiche. In fact, Hawaii stated specifically that the two copies were made by copying the original Certificate of Live Birth. This is from the news release issued by the Hawaii Department of Health on April 27, 2011:

          “On April 25, 2011, pursuant to President Obama’s request, Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate of Live Birth and attested to the authenticity of the two copies. Dr. Alvin Onaka, the State Registrar, certified the copies.”

          http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2011/04/27/hawaii-health-dept-details-obama-birth-certificate-request/

          Dr. Onaka certified the copies by affixing his stamp. It’s the same stamp with the same wording that was used on certified copies or abstracts issued at that time. This stamp was never used on the originals.

    • COMALite J says:

      Curious, read what Reed Hayes himself says on his very own website. Basically, Zullo et al have been grossly misrepresenting what he’s said and done wrt the Obama long form.

      Somebody should contact FORLAB and get their official statement on whether Zullo et al contacted them and what exactly they did and assert.

      As for the signature stamp, in addition to what Reality Check said, have you ever used a real physical rubber stamp? Ever held one in your hand? Ever even clapped eyes on one? Let alone had one made?

      The language is just what it says. On the Hawaii State Government’s very own website is this page about applying for Hawai’ian Homelands. It has nothing to do with Obama. It’s useful here for learning how the State of Hawaii defines the term “birth certificate”:

      Primary Documents

      Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

      The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

      (All emphasis mine except for the boldfacing of the section header “Primary Documents”)

      Got that? According to the specific departments of the State Government of Hawaii that have actual official jurisdiction over birth certificates, the very term “birth certificate” is an umbrella term that covers both Certificates of Live Birth (the original or a certified copy thereof, aka “long form”) and Certifications of Live Birth (certified computer-generated abstracts, aka “short form”). Both of those are birth certificates!! A “short form” Certification of Live Birth isn’t “just as good as” a birth certificate — it is a birth certificate!!

      Note the part at the end of my quoted section (and please, do go to the actual website to verify the accuracy of my quote, and the fact that I did not take anything out of context): the State DOH no longer issues “long forms”! They had computerized their records decades ago, and whenever anyone needed an official certifi copy of their birth certificate, they’d get a “short form” Certification of Live Birth, which is still. every bit, in every respect, a birth certficate!

      This is why it took so long for Obama to obtain his “long form” — Hawaii was no longer giving those out, for anyone, for any reason. Not even the President of the United States has the power to force a State to violate their own laws (“States’ Rights,” remember?), even if it’s for himself as a person born there! Hawaii finally relented in 2011 and dug out the original from its vault long enough to make a certified copy.

      It was totally unnecessary for him to do so. The whole of Birtherism started from one Iranian ex-patriot living in California (deceased as of 2013) named Ali R. Pahlavan, who got the idea from a comment posted by one “Dave N” the day before (2:02 am on Leap Year Day, 2008, to be precise) which included an hypothetical scenario posted as an analogy “(just for grins and giggles)” on a The Volokh Conspiracy article about whether John McCain qualified as a Natural Born Citizen (he did, but there was legitimate reason for concern there because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone). Pahlavan (not Hillary nor any of her campaign staff) was the very first person to assert even as a rumor (rather than an hypothetical scenario analogy) that Obama was born in Kenya and snuck into the USA by his mother, with his birth falsely registered in Hawaii. He did this on the Free Republic right-wing forum site under his Freeper username of “FARS” (the Persian language dialect of Iran is called “Farsi”), and four days later posted it as an outright accusation on his own blog using an Anglicized version of his Farsi name: Alan Peters’s Ruthless Roundup. (“Ali” ⇒ “Alan,” “Pahlavan” ⇒ “Peters” — get it?) This is according to the detailed research of Loren Collins, the world’s expert on the subject of the origin and spread of Birtherism.

      It was only because of Birtherism that Obama was even asked to show even a short form (which he voluntarily did in mid-June of 2008). Do you realize that until the 2008 election, no President nor candidate for President in all of U.S. history had ever even been asked to show a birth certificate of any kind!? Not George Washington, not the much more recent George W., not anyone in-between. McCain was the first to be asked (for reasons already given), and Obama the first to do so.

      Showing a birth certificate has never been a requirement to be elected as, let alone run for, President.

      Okay, Curious, since you’re not posting for reasons of political bias and am not a racist nor hypocrite, your next Reply here, or post anywhere else on the Internet on any subject in any form (this includes Email) will include a link to a post by you, using either this same handle or one that you can prove that you control (type “Hey, COMALite J and Reality Check! It’s me, Curious! or words to that effect in the same thread if its commenting is still open, or a more recent thread in the same forum if it times out commenting on older threads) that clearly shows date & timestamps of all comments and does not permit the comments to be edited after submission, dated prior to Obama running for President, in which you personally expressed the same sort of concern about the Natural Born Citizenship of George W. Bush or Ronald Reagan or even Bill Clinton or any other white President as you have about Barack Obama. Either do that or admit that you cannot. Failure to do this will constitute an implied concession of complete and utter defeat on this matter.

    • COMALite J says:

      Curious, read what Reed Hayes himself says on his very own website. Basically, Zullo et al have been grossly misrepresenting what he’s said and done wrt the Obama long form.

      Somebody should contact FORLAB and get their official statement on whether Zullo et al contacted them and what exactly they did and assert.

      As for the signature stamp, in addition to what Reality Check said, have you ever used a real physical rubber stamp? Ever held one in your hand? Ever even clapped eyes on one? Let alone had one made?

      The language is just what it says. On the Hawaii State Government’s very own website is this page about applying for Hawai’ian Homelands. It has nothing to do with Obama. It’s useful here for learning how the State of Hawaii defines the term “birth certificate”:

      Primary Documents

      Birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth and Certifications of Live Birth) and Certificates of Hawaiian Birth are the primary documents used to determine native Hawaiian qualification.

      The Department of Hawaiian Home Lands accepts both Certificates of Live Birth (original birth certificate) and Certifications of Live Birth because they are official government records documenting an individual’s birth. The Certificate of Live Birth generally has more information which is useful for genealogical purposes as compared to the Certification of Live Birth which is a computer-generated printout that provides specific details of a person’s birth. Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth.

      (All emphasis mine except for the boldfacing of the section header “Primary Documents”)

      Got that? According to the specific departments of the State Government of Hawaii that have actual official jurisdiction over birth certificates, the very term “birth certificate” is an umbrella term that covers both Certificates of Live Birth (the original or a certified copy thereof, aka “long form”) and Certifications of Live Birth (certified computer-generated abstracts, aka “short form”). Both of those are birth certificates!! A “short form” Certification of Live Birth isn’t “just as good as” a birth certificate — it is a birth certificate!!

      — (Continued in next Reply) —

      • I apologize for your comments going to the Trash. I am playing with a spam filter and I made it a little too aggressive. I will delete any duplicates.

        • COMALite J says:

          I was wondering. I knew you’d set me to unmoderated after my first comment on your blog way back when, but figured some technical glitch was happening. I thought maybe a length limit had been imposed, thus the shorter second post ending in “— Continued in next Reply) —.”

          • COMALite J says:

            Aaand, I wish WordPress would give us a Preview-before-Post Comment. The “&#FB01;” was supposed to have an “x” between the “#” and ”F” which would produce an “f i” ligature which looks like “fi” instead of “fi” (as in the word “first” in that comment).

          • You should be OK to comment now. You weren’t on moderation. I had to beef up the spam filter because a certain Birther keeps leaving comments with homoerotic fantasies about me and other “Obots” going to jail. If figured out the problem and recovered your comments.

            Unfortunately, WordPress.com blogs don’t allow allow users to preview or edit comments. Only the site admin can edit comments. If you email me through the comment page or just leave a comment on what you want changed I will be glad to make the edits for you. You leave excellent comments and I know it is frustrating when you miss a typo. I’ve considered leasing a domain and setting up a WordPress.org blog but I don’t know if the ten year old Birther nonsense really justifies even the minor time and expense. The WordPress.org software is a lot more flexible.

    • Curious took offense that I called his suggestion that the wording on the Registrar’s signature stamp somehow suggested there was something wrong with the Obama long from certificate ludicrous. But it was ludicrous. A little research would have shown that was the standard rubber stamp used on every Hawaii birth certificate we have seen signed by Alvin Onaka.

      After 10 years of this nonsense pardon me if I call Birther nitpicking BS for what it is.

      • COMALite J says:

        It’s worse than nonsense. It has put the nation, Western civilization, quite possibly human civilization, and maybe even most multicellular life on this planet other than tardigrades (and even most microbes other than those that can thrive in seafloor volcanic vents) in dire danger (thanks to Scott Pruitt), and has already permanently cost us our leadership position in the world. Donald Trump wouldn’t even have run for President in the first place had it not been for Birtherism.

        Just think: one guy posting one short intended-to-be-helpful comment on The Volokh Conspiracy at 2:02 am on Leap Year Day, 2008, set all this in motion.

        It could maybe still have been derailed and Trump’s and other Birthers’ credibility demolished after April 27, 2011, if only some White House clerk had inserted the “long form” into the Xerox WorkCentre Model 7655 the right way instead of wrong end first (a mistake that wouldn’t matter for making physical copies — heck, it probably wouldn’t even be noticed — but when doing Scan-to-Email, it meant that the attachment was upside-down, thus inspiring the WhiteHouse·gov web person to rotate it 180° in Mac OS X 10.8.6 “Snow Leopard”’s built-in Preview application), or if the WhiteHouse·gov web person had used Adobe Acrobat instead of Mac OS X Preview to do the rotate (either of which would’ve retained the “Xerox WorkCentre 7655” PDF Creator metadata and not overwritten it with “Mac OS X 10.8.6 Quartz PDFcontext” that Preview did — the presence of that metadata would’ve meant that what John Woodman later figured out would’ve been known much sooner, and completely demolished those talking about “layers” and such back then), or if the programmers of Mac OS X Preview hadn’t been too lazy to include the code to transfer over the PDF metadata when doing a minor transformation (such as a 180° rotate) instead of overwriting it with Mac OS X Preview’s own metadata.

        Any one of those things would’ve prevented this.

      • Northland10 says:

        Just like all Birthers before hand, Curious ignores the simple purpose of a birth certificate. It is just a state government providing data on a vital event and the registrar certifying that the provided data matches their records on file. To make this possible, they either provide the data from a database or make a copy of the original certificate. What matters is the content and certification, not the form.

        Before readily available copiers, some places would type the basic data on a separate form which would then be certified as matching the original information on file.

    • At the end of your now removed comment you said something I thought needed to be addressed:

      “Perhaps the most compelling circumstantial evidence that the proffered Obama LFBC is a forgery is the fact that qualified independent researchers have not been permitted to examine the original Obama LFBC that ostensibly is still archived in Hawaii. The only way to settle the question of authenticity is to have the original documents (paper and microform) examined by qualified experts. Why won’t Obama and the State of Hawaii permit that? If the documents are legitimate, they have nothing to fear. Until then…”

      This is the classic “why won’t he produce all his records?” Birther nonsense argument. Can you name one state that has opened up their vital records to inspection by outside agents? Hawaii law limits those who have access to vital records. Finally, the full faith and credit clause in the Constitution ends all argument about the legal authenticity of documents issued by Hawaii.

      • COMALite J says:

        Thanks for reminding me. I forgot to address that.

        Hey, Curious, you do know what the word “original” means, right? How many originals are there, of any one thing? Answer: one! The original of even an ordinary person’s birth certificate (let alone a former or then-current President of the United States¤s) is waay too valuable to risk subjecting to damage by allowing it to be removed from the climate-controlled vault for any reason short of the Vital Records building itself catching fire or the whole island of Oahu up and deciding to show off its Atlantis impersonation (the Big Island’s volcano is doing some interesting stuff right now, but that’s not Oahu). That would be true even if Obama’s wasn’t bound into large volumes with the hundreds of other birth certificates of other people born on Oahu that year (which it was — the page curl and shadow on the left prove that), so removing Obama’s from the vault would also endanger all of those hundreds of other people’s who have nothing to do with this.

        This is why certified copies and printouts are made for all requests for birth certificates for any reason. Did you know that you have never seen your own original birth certificate? (Well, may you caught a glance at it with blurry newborn eyeballs if a nurse or someone was holding you near where it was being filled out.) Your parents did, just long enough to sign it. So did the doctor or midwife who delivered you, and the clerk. But once its data was entered into the computer and it was bound into a volume and the volume went into the vault, nobody gets to see the original. Ever.

        You’re asking for ridiculously extraordinary levels of evidence, far and away past the legal requirements. The “short form” expressly states near the bottom that it constitutes Prima Facie evidence of Hawaiian birth for all legal purposes. Do you know what the term “prima facie” means? It means evidence that the law considers so overwhelming that even if the burden of proof was on the side presenting the evidence, the presence of prima facie evidence shifts the burden of proof to the other side!

        It’s not up to Obama or Hawaii to prove the certificates they have provided and already certified to be authentic. They provided prima facie evidence back in June of 2008. There was no need to even show the “long form” but Birthers insisted that if Obama did that, it would shut them up. So, finally Hawaii had had enough and broke their own years-old law against doing any more “long forms” of anyone’s birth certificate to anyone (even that person) for any reason, and they released it on April 25, 2011 and Obama showed it to the world two days later. The Birthers swore that that would shut them up. Surprise, surprise, Sargeant Carter! They lied!

        We all know that no evidence will convince a die-hard Birther. If Barry Allen were to run them personally through the Speed Force back through time, or Doctor Who were to take them on a T.A.R.D.I.S. ride, back to December 4, 1961, to the delivery room at Kapolian’i Maternity & Gynecological Hospital in Honolulu, Oahu, HI, and the Birthers watched Stanley Ann Dunham give birth to Barack Obama with their very own eyeballs, that still wouldn’t convince them, But the looniest of “evidences” from “experts” who don’t know the first thing about actual digital document forensic analysis does convince them that it’s forged.

        The Birthers have had to walk back every bit of “evidences of forgery” they’ve presented to date. Layers, debunked (Xerox WorkCentre 7655 MRC). Chromatic aberration, debunked (Xerox MRC again). Halos, debunked (MRC again, combined with the DCT [JPEG] compression of the background layer). “Kerning,” debunked (the guy who brought that up didn’t even know what kerning actually is — also the low-resolution binary rasterization of the foreground layer by the MRC algorithm exacerbates the effect). Rotation of layers, debunked (Mac OS X “Snow Leopard” 10.8.6’s Preview app). “Different fonts,” debunked (ludicrous from the get-go: scanned documents don’t have the pixel grid lining up exactly with the printed physical-ink-on-physlcal-paper letters so different scans of the same character will look different, as anyone who has ever scanned any document then looked at them closely can tell you — in fact, this one is evidence that it wasn’t forged on a computer!). A few occurrences of the same characters being pixel-for-pixel identical, debunked (Xerox WorkCentre 7655 JBIG2, not MRC). White page borders, debunked (Xerox WorkCentre margin removal). Pencilled-in codes, debunked (Zullo showed the codes for a later year, while the ones for 1961 matched up properly).

        Certificate number out of sequence compared to the Nordyke Twins, debunked (anyone who has ever used a Bates® auto-incrementing numbering stamp [as with “date stamps” and “in/out boxes,” this, too, is yet another example of pre-computerized office technology keeping the same name when done on computers — Adobe Acrobat has an auto-numbering feature built in, and guess what they call it? “Bates numbering”!] to number-stamp a stack of documents [the Hawaii Department of Health processed birth certificates on a per-month basis, and sorted them in alphabetical instead of chronological order first, and since “N”ordyke comes before “O”bama in the alphabet, his got a slightly higher number despite being born the day before, so that works out — a forger would likely not know that and even if he knew of their birth certificates, he’d try to assign Obama a lower one, which would be evidence of forgery!). And so on, and so on, and so on. Not a single one of their claims has held up.

        The “9 Points of Forgery” thing with the Ah’Nee birth certificate was their last gasp, and it, too, has failed. We know that that video isn’t just incompetent, it’s outright fraudulent. It was deliberately faked to look like elements matched up that didn’t — and I can prove that right from their own video.

        We “Obots,” on the other hand, have never had to walk back any of our debunkings of Birther claims — except that I did used to speculate that the “long form” may have been scanned directly into Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro version 6 or later using “Create .PDF …” ⇒ “From scanner…” and accepting the default settings except for unchecking “Recognize Text (OCR)?” in that dialog box. Adobe licensed the MRC and JBIG2 algorithms from Xerox and incorporated them into what it used to sell separately (and for quite the chunk of change) as “Adobe Acrobat Capture,” but which was later included along with Acrobat starting with version 6 (and available for previous versions as a free download) as the “Adobe Paper Capture Subsystem for Acrobat.” I still ask anyone who doubts that MRC can do what we see as far as “layers” and such in the Obama long form to scan any known genuine form-type document of their own directly into Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro themselves, because more people have access to that than have access to a Xerox WorkCentre. Thanks to John Woodman, we know the exact steps used to produce the White House .PDF file version of the “long form” and why it shows the artifacts that it does, so I freely admit that my speculation (which was never an assertion) about it being done in Acrobat was wrong. But it was still the MRC algorithm, whether in Acrobat or a Xerox WorkCentre.

        • ” Thanks to John Woodman, we know the exact steps used to produce the White House .PDF file version of the “long form” and why it shows the artifacts that it does, so I freely admit that my speculation (which was never an assertion) about it being done in Acrobat was wrong. But it was still the MRC algorithm, whether in Acrobat or a Xerox WorkCentre.”

          While John led the way in debunking many of the claims made by the Birther self proclaimed “experts” he was not involved in coming up with the theory that the original scan of the certified copy of the LFBC was done on a Xerox WorkCentre. I think John suggested in his book and book that compression algorithms could account for most or all the anomalies like layers.

          The first time a Xerox Workcentre as the source of the original scan was suggested that I could find was in a comment left by “justlw” at obamaconspiracy.org (Doctor Conspiracy’s blog) on March 20, 2012:

          “I finally got a chance to play around a little with my Mac and a scanner, and have come to a shocking conclusion:

          I have a really old, crummy scanner.

          But based on my poking around, I would put money on the White House having a Xerox WorkCentre color copier/scanner with a “scan to email” feature, rather than anything attached directly to someone’s Macintosh.

          This would fit the available data, including the MRC artifacts. There is no intrinsic MRC functionality that I can see in Mac OS Quartz, so it’s much more likely it came from the scanner with MRC compression already in place, and WorkCentre copier/scanners do come with MRC built in.”

          Then blogger NBC and several commenters at his site took over and started examining Xerox patents and looked for pdf documents that could were scanned on Xerox Workcentres. They should similar layering effects that resulted from MRC and JBIG2 compression algorithms. W. Kevin Vicklund, gsgs, and others contributed.

          NBC was able to scan a printout of the Obama LFBC on a Xerox Workcentre and get similar effects. I had access to a Xerox Workcentre. Dr. Conspiracy provided me with some new sheets of Simpson green basket weave security paper and a scaled black and white image of the AP JPG image that I printed on one of the sheets. That’s what I used for my tests.

          I believe it was John Woodman who found out the Obama 2011 tax return PDF files posted at whitehouse.gov indicated they had been scanned on a Xerox Workcentre.

  10. Apparently the fired CCP lead, Mike Zullo was on Carl Gallups’ tiny little radio show Friday. Of course the Post & Email ran the obligatory article about Gallups’ and Zullo’s baseless speculation:

    “Zullo then said that shortly after Trump demanded the DOJ launch an investigation into the “spying” allegation, “all of a sudden, my email inbox started to blow up. I got emails from the Italian corporation that did the analysis for us on one side of the continent on the document and came to the conclusion that it’s a fabrication. People were engaging them, all of a sudden opening up dialog, again challenging the findings, trying to get the work product, i.e., their professional reports that I have not released yet, trying to get copies of that information, people making contacts with me, again challenging our findings and trying to make arrangements to meet with me.”

    In the now deleted comment by Curious he said that he had contacted FORLAB in Italy. I wonder if that is what was the basis of Zullo’s ranting? Maybe he would care to comment?

  11. Since there was an ongoing discussion about the original comment left by Curious which included him I decided to restore it. If he doesn’t want to defend what he wrote that is his choice. I think he brought up some good points about why Zullo’s claim that the Obama certificate was constructed using parts of the Ah’Nee certificate are demonstrably false. I would like to see what work he did on that.

  12. Ike says:

    Just doing a drive by & totally blown away by what I’m seeing.

    This is freakin unreal. You silly Obots are, after all this time, still hog jawing over that substitute document that you claim is a copy of Obama’s original birth certificate on file at the HDoH. Get the original released for comparison, if it exists, then we’ll know the truth.

    Neither Zullo & his clown posse or you silly Obots will be able to conclusively prove anything until the original is shown, if it exists.

    • tbfreeman says:

      The State of Hawaii has repeatedly and expressly said that Obama was born there. That is sufficient for any government agency in the United States.

      That it is not sufficient for you is your problem alone.

      But you are correct that “Zullo & his clown posse” have not, will not, and cannot prove anything (other than they are lying idiots and/or idiotic liars).

    • Still the idiot I remember I see.

    • What “substitute document” are you talking about? Quit making things up.

    • Northland10 says:

      Why didn’t the investigation subpoena that original and go to court to try and enforce it?

      Why has Zullo not released the 2 reports for “experts”?

      • ….Raises hand….Because it was never a real investigation?

      • COMALite J says:

        Do you not understand what the word “original” means? There’s only ever one original of any handwritten or hand-filled-out document.

        The original of anyone’s birth certificate, let alone that of an historic figure such as a President of the United States, especially someone like the first-ever non-white POTUS, would be waaay too historically valuable to risk damaging by removing it from the climate-controlled Vital Records vault on Oahu for any reason short of the building catching fire or the whole island of Oahu suddenly up and deciding to show off its Atlantis impersonation.

        And that’s if it were only Obama’s certificate that would be endangered, but it isn’t. You see, they had no way of knowing back then that this ½-black baby would grow up to become the 44th President of the USA. So, they treated his birth certificate like anyone else’s. Once filled out and signed by the parents and physician and clerk, it was placed in a stack of certificates for babies born in that month, sorted in alphabetical order by last name, and then numbered (with a Bates® auto-incrementing numbering stamp — this is why the numbering seems out-of-sequence by modern standards).and stamp-signed by the registrar.

        Eventually, after the end of the year, all of the birth certificates for a given year are bound together into a single large volume, like a book (this is what caused the page-curl on the left side of Obama’s long-form). Do you understand? There’s no way to safely remove a single page from a hard-bound volume without endangering adjacent page, and taking the whole volume out of the vault would be out of the question even to satisfy Birthers, because it would endanger not only Obama’s historically extremely important certificate, but also the original birth certificates of hundreds of other babies born on Oahu in 1961.

        You’re demanding extraordinary levels of evidence, far above and beyond that even requested for any prior President or candidate for President. Did you personally demand such about George W. Bush’s? Or Bill Clinton’s? Or George H. W. Bush’s? Or Ronald W. Reagan’s? Please link to a comment posted by you on any forum using either the same username you use here, or one that you can prove that you control, dated back then and unedited, in which you personally demanded to see even a copy of any of their birth certificates.

        Did you know that before the 2008 election. no President nor candidate for President had shown his birth certificate, nor even been asked to do so!? John McCain was the first to be asked (because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone so there was real, if invalid, concern about his Natural Born Citizen bona-fides). Obama was the first to actually show his (short form in June of 2008, while still a candidate, before even becoming the nominee).

    • Come on Ike you and I both know no matter what the department of health gives you to examine you’ll just claim it’s a fake. There’s no document relating to Obama you would accept. It was never about the constitution for you guys it was about who he is.

  13. Ike says:

    How sad. ‌Nine replies from 5 Obots and only one shows they have functioning brain cells.

    Northland, those are both legit questions that I don’t have enough knowledge on to give specific answers – especially the 2ND. I’ll assume the 1ST was part of why Zullo & Gallops were contacting members of Congress.

    The rest of yas need to show some signs there is intelligent life in your cranial area.

    tbfreeman hits the target with “…State of Hawaii has repeatedly and expressly said…”. That has been my problem with the issue from the beginning. How about original incontestable physical proof instead of hearsay to backup what the Hawaiian officials have repeatedly claimed? Instead you go with the same ol’ Pogue Moran lamebrain excuse.

    comalite with all that senseless bloviating looks comatose. That’s the type of longwinded lunacy I see all the time on the farLeft marxist sites. He brought in Reed Hayes’s statement from 8/3/16 for support then proceded to cherry-pick it to fit his lunacy. Go to the last paragraph where Hayes summed it up. That’s the bottom line for his statement.

    Poor RC is still stuck on stupid. If the Original that is claimed to be on file at the HDoH hasn’t been released then the documents released to the public a 1/2 century after the alleged original time of birth have to be substitutes.

    • The rest of yas need to show some signs there is intelligent life in your cranial area.

      Very funny coming from someone who has failed to utter a single intelligent thought here.

    • COMALite J says:

      Ah-ha-ha-ha! Oh gosh that’s funny. That’s really fu—. D’you–do you write your own material? Do you? Because that is so fresh. “comalite with all that senseless bloviating looks comatose.” Y’know, I—I’ve never heard anyone make that joke before. Mmm. You’re the first. I’ve never heard anyone reference, reference that outside COMAL User’s Group before. Because that, that’s what “COMALite” sounds like, right? A “lite coma”? A–a–and yet you’ve taken that, and used it out of context, to insult me in this everyday WordPress blog! Gosh, what a clever, smart guy you must be — to come up with, with a joke like that all by yourself. Mmmm. That’s so fresh, too. Any, any Titanic jokes you want to throw at us while we’re hitting these phenomena at the height of their popularity? ’Cause I’m righ—I’m here. God you’re so funny!

    • And thank you for giving us such a perfect example of your stupidity Ike. I quote:

      ” If the Original that is claimed to be on file at the HDoH hasn’t been released then the documents released to the public a 1/2 century after the alleged original time of birth have to be substitutes.”

      Can you name a single person in the history of the United States who carries around their birth record out of the the state archives from the state they were born or who has even seen it (unless the are an employee of the state)? Of course not. That statement is breathtakingly stupid. Obama released and allowed people to handle two original birth certificates. Your clearly don’t have the slightest idea of the meaning of an original birth certificate do you?

    • Northland10 says:

      Ike Said: Northland, those are both legit questions that I don’t have enough knowledge on to give specific answers – especially the 2ND. I’ll assume the 1ST was part of why Zullo & Gallops were contacting members of Congress.

      What good would it be to contact members of Congress? They don’t have subpoena powers except for a Congressional investigation, and it does not appear that any have ever been interested (must not have been a good vote-getter).

      In a regular investigation, the Sheriff would have gone to the prosecuting attorney to secure a subpoena. When the subpoena petition was denied for Constitutional reasons (or if the state refused to honor it for the same reasons), they could then appeal up the latter until they got to the Supreme Court.

      Since they did not even appear to do follow the first steps of the basic procedure, I am stuck with only 2 alternatives. 1, they are really bad investigators, or 2, this was never a serious investigation.

      The fact that the Arizona SOS accepted Hawaii’s validation and the Maricopa Prosecutor said they had no usable evidence does not put the investigation in a very positive light.

      • Arpaio was essentially admitting the investigation was a sham political and fundraising exercise when he gave it to the Klown Case Posse headed by Chief Klown Mike Zullo. Brian Reilly figured that out right away. It worked for Apraio. It appeased and excited his base of idiots who gladly opened their pockets to support Arapio’s campaigns and the investigation.

        It also headed off most of the criticism he would take for using public money on such a stupid investigation that he knew would go nowhere. It still crossed the line a couple of times when he sent a paid deputy to Hawaii with Zullo to try to bully the Hawaii DoH officials into letting them into the vaults. Jill Nagamine and the Hawaiian officials shut them out though.

        The other time was when Arapio and Zullo got hoodwinked by the con artist Dennis Montgomery when he dangled the possibility of using the Birther investigation as a way of getting damaging information on Arapio’s enemies at the DoJ and on Judge Murray Snow. It really blew up in his face though when Stephen Lemons found out about it. Had not the Orange Turd been elected Arpaio might have even spent some time in jail for that one.

      • Ike says:

        OK, I think you got it. Zullo & Gallups were meeting with members of Congress for the purpose of starting a congressional investigation.

        Before the end of 2013 I was having some misgivings over the way Zullo & Gallups were presenting their investigation to the public.

        Here’s the Truth:

        All the inspection that has been done on that Substitute birth document released in April 2011, by both sides, cannot tell us what is claimed to be on file at the HDoH is, without question, a genuine original birth certificate for Obama.

        Here’s one for you to figure out:

        According to Obot Strauss: During Linda Lingle’s term as Hawaiian governor, 4 officials (to include Lingle) went in to the vault where it’s claimed Obama’s original birth certificate is being kept and all 4 confirmed that every single fact on Obama’s birth certificate is exactly the same as on what they sent him.

        My question to Strauss: So why was Neil Abercrombie, the governor who succeeded Lingle, unable to find that same Original 1961 birth certificate? According to Abercrombie his investigation could only find a written notation in the state archives for an Obama birth. The state archives is in a building separate from the HDoH. If Lingle was able to make the comparison and confirm, as you claim, then why wasn’t Abercrombie able to do the same, both were governors?

        That was 7 months ago. Strauss never replied back.

        • Mark Bellison says:

          If Strauss claimed that four went into to view the original document he is mistaken.

          Dr. Fukino, Dr. Onaka and Director Fuddy are the only three individuals who have seen the original.

          Governors are not allowed to view the original records.

          Here is Dr. Fukino describing the process.

        • tbfreeman says:

          After all these years, Ike still doesn’t know how birth certificates work: By law, they are presumed to be valid, unless contrary evidence is provided.

          And also after all these years, birthers still have failed to satify their burden of any providing any evidence that Obama’s isn’t genuine.

        • “According to Abercrombie his investigation could only find a written notation in the state archives for an Obama birth.”

          What Abercrombie actually said was “”Our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives written down,” Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser.

          Why did you change the quote? The birth records at the DoH fit that description.

          Maybe Strauss tired of you silly word games and deception.

          • Ike says:

            I didn’t bother to look it up and give an exact quote. The paraphrase is close enough.

            What exists in the archives written down? Abercommie never produced/showed any physical proof from the archives. All we have is what he investigation was claiming (hearsay).

            When Abercommie campaigned for governor he promised to find the Obama birth certificate – he never did.

            We were left with what he told Mike Evans: “Mike, there is no birth certificate for Obama in Hawaii.”

            Evans said his good buddy Neil searched everywhere in Hawaii, including the hospitals, and couldn’t find one for Obama.

            How do you know the records at the HDoH fit that description – you’ve never seen them.

            You speak of word games & deception. It’s you that has been playing semantical games with the term ‘original birth certificate’. Even a couple of your fellow-traveling Obots in this thread have admitted it.

            • No your paraphrase was a lie. Mike Evans recanted everything he said. He was pulling it out of his ass. Nice try idiot.

            • tbfreeman says:

              Mike Evans recanted every lie that he attempted to put into Abercrombie’s mouth.

              That Abercrombie was unable to legally obtain a copy of Obama’s birth certificate is unsurprising because Abercrombie had no right to do so.

              That Ike continues to not accept Hawaii’s certifications and verifications that have been accepted by real government entities is his problem, alone.

            • Mark Billison says:

              “When Abercommie campaigned for governor he promised to find the Obama birth certificate – he never did.”

              Abercrombie never said he would find Obama’s birth certificate.

              What he said was,

              A) he was only going to release what he was legally allowed to release (a birth certificate was not something he could legally release on his own).

              B) he was not going to ask Obama for permission to release the birth certificate.

              • Ike says:

                ABC News:’Abercrombie vowed soon after taking Office in December that he would track down the birth certificate and lay the rumors to rest.’

                On Jan 20, ’11 a number of other main stream media sources reported that too.

                I’ve been over this with the Obots in the past at other sites including this one. Most times RC was in the thick of it. So he should remember.

                Here’s one I used back then. UK Daily Mail 1/20/11:

                Abercrombie said on Tuesday that an investigation had unearthed papers proving Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961.

                He told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser: ‘It actually exists in the archives, written down,’ he said.

                But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.

                And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.

                He said efforts were still being made to track down definitive vital records that would prove Obama was born in Hawaii.

                • Mark Bellison says:

                  Nope.

                  Here is the ABC report on it from December.

                  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/birther-controversy-priority-hawaii-gov-neil-abercrombie/story?id=12499672

                  And from January:

                  https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-birth-hawaii-gov-proof-presidents-birth-certificate/story?id=12721552

                  Their stories are based on the reporting of the New York Times and CNN. They never actually interview Gov. Abercrombie themselves.

                  Here is the New York Times article on it:

                  Here is his actual statement to CNN:

                  “Asked if one option is to ask Obama to waive his privacy rights so that a copy of his actual birth certificate can be released publicly, Abercrombie cut off a reporter’s question.”

                  “No, no, no – it’s not up to the president,” he said. “It has nothing to do with the president. It has to do with the people of Hawaii who love him, people who love his mom and dad. It has to do with respect the office of the president is entitled to. And it has to do with respect that every single person’s mother and father are entitled to.”

                  “Pressed on whether he might unilaterally release a copy of Obama’s actual birth certificate, Abercrombie made clear that he is waiting for his cabinet officials to give him a report on what he can legally do before proceeding.”

                  “Obviously, I’m going to do what is legally possible,” the governor said.”

                  http://whitehouse.blogs.cnn.com/2010/12/27/governor-vows-to-end-birther-controversy/

                  and the video

                  “And in the same interview Abercrombie suggested that a long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate for Barack Obama may not exist within the vital records maintained by the Hawaii Department of Health.”

                  This is an outright lie.

                  Here is the entire interview with the Star Advertiser. Nowhere in it does he suggest that there may not be a Hawaiian long form birth certificate.

                  http://www.staradvertiser.com/2011/01/18/editorial/our-view/this-is-a-collaborative-endeavor/

                • tbfreeman says:

                  “But it became apparent that what had been discovered was an unspecified listing or notation of Obama’s birth that someone had made in the state archives and not a birth certificate.”

                  Maybe “apparent” to you, but apparent to the reality-based world is that Abercrombie is referring to the Hawaii Department of Health’s records.

    • tbfreeman says:

      “That has been my problem with the issue from the beginning.”

      Exactly: YOUR problem.

      The State of Hawaii has repeatedly and expressly said that Obama was born there. And Hawaii’s statements are accepted by any governmental agency. (And sane people.)

      Obama’s birth certificate has been accepted into evidence in court cases. Secretaries of State have accepted Hawaii’s verification (in lieu of a birth certificate).

      That YOU don’t accept this evidence is your problem. YOUR problem.

      • Ike says:

        Yes, my problem along with millions of other Americans.

        Did you mean that Substitute used instead of Obama’s original birth certificate was accepted in one court case?

        • tbfreeman says:

          “Millions.” More birther puffery. No one cares.

          Copies of both the long and short form were received into evidence in court cases. That you refuse to accept what courts will is YOUR problem.

          • Ike says:

            Will you provide something showing that ‘short form’ being used as proof in a court case. Comalite claims it’s Prima Facie evidence, which is true, if it’s used in a court of law. The problem is I’ve never seen anyone show/provide the court case where it was used.

            Some years back Obots were running around the internet claiming that prima facie was the only proof needed. I was laughing and telling them Obama was playing them for fools. He won’t take it to court.

            • tbfreeman says:

              The short form was entered and accepted into evidence in Georgia ballot challenge in 2012.

              Why it is good enough for the judge but not good enough for you is your problem, alone.

              • Ike says:

                2nd request: Will you provide something that will SHOW the SHORT FORM being used as PROOF in a court case.

                • tbfreeman says:

                  The familiar sound of a birther moving a goalpost!

                  In the 2012 Georgia ballot case, Obama’s birth certificate was introduced into evidence. There are multiple contemporaneous blog posts about this happening; surely a bright boy like yourself can operate a search engine to find at least one. Hint: try Dr. Conspiracy’s site.

                  The judge in Georgia then ruled that, due to Obama being born in the United States, he was a natural-born citizen. The judge’s ruling sure seems to “SHOW” that the birth certificate was “use as PROOF in a court case.”

                  Why, in 2018, that you are still obsessed with a 2012 ballot challenge is YOUR problem, alone.

        • COMALite J says:

          Ike, you keep using the word “substitute.” Do you even know what that means?

          Have you ever seen your own original birth certificate? Not unless you’re high up in your own state’s Vital Records department, you haven’t. Every birth certificate you ever saw even for yourself has been either a certified copy of the original (aka “long form”) or a certified printed abstract of the most important data on the original (aka “short form”).

          So, technically, yes, those are substitutes. Everybody’s birth certificates used for any purpose are substitutes. The original has to stay in the vault, forever, and cannot be removed for any reason short of the vault itself being in imminent danger.

          Here’s the Truth:

          All the inspection that has been done on that Substitute birth document released in April 2011, by both sides, cannot tell us what is claimed to be on file at the HDoH is, without question, a genuine original birth certificate for Obama.

          Another thing you got technically right, but not in the way you think. No, we don’t have absolute certainty, but then again, absolute certainty is never the legal requirement for anything. For civil matters (such as qualifications for public office including President of the USA), preponderance of the evidence suffices. Even for criminal law, the standard is proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

          The only thing you can absolutely prove, without question, is your own existence as a sapient mind. You can’t even be sure that what you see with your eyes is real. It could be that you’re really in the Matrix, or are a brain-in-a-jar being fed a false view of the world, or are living a fake life like The Truman Show.

          The thing is, as I pointed out before in this very thread, every claim that the Birther “experts” have made to date has had to be walked back. Every. Last. One. Of. Them. We “Obots” haven’t had to walk back a single one of our assertions, though I do admit that I was wrong in my earlier speculation that the long form was scanned directly into Adobe Acrobat Standard or Pro version 6 or later, which has the same algorithms that a Xerox WorkCentre has (Adobe licensed them from Xerox, who patented them well over two decades ago — waay before April 27, 2011!). At the time I didn’t know about the WorkCentre’s Scan-to-Email function or that it worked the same way as Adobe’s Paper Capture Subsystem built into Acrobat Standard or Pro v6 or later (and available as a free downloaded add-on for v5).

  14. Ike says:

    It’s deja vu. We been down this road before with your lack of comprehension on the congresssional records from the revolutionary period on the Bible. So here we go again. You’re making yourself a shoo-in for the Dunning-Kruger poster boy.

    What’s breathtakingly stupid is you injecting the red herring: “Can you name a single person in the history of the United States who carries around their birth record out of the the state archives from the state they were born …?” That has nothing to do with releasing the Obama Original, claimed to be in the vault at the HDoH, for inspection & comparison except to confuse people on the subject matter.

    One of your fellow-traveling Obots doesn’t agree with you. comalite in his longwinded psycobabble referenced the Obama Original as being too valuable to be released from the vault.

    In the Reed Hayes Statement (8/3/16) Hayes points out many times the Obama Original is being held at HDoH:

    -Any statements of opinion that I have given are therefore contingent upon examination of the original paper document allegedly in the hands of the State of Hawaii Department of Health.

    -Absent the Department of Health’s willingness to allow an examination of the original, there is no way to prove if the document I examined is a proper duplicate of same.

    -But without examining the original document housed at the Hawaii Department of Health, there can be no absolute certainty.

    • Now we get to the core bullshit of the Birther argument. Not once in history of this country has anyone had to have a state display the original birth record from a state archive. It’s not required by law. It’s not required by the Constitution. But because this unethical, greedy, unqualified jerk Reed Hayes took Zullo’s money and opined on something he had no expertise to do you wanted Obama to do something no president nor any person has had to do to demonstrate where they were born.

      Did you know Reed Hayes never even downloaded the PDF file from the White House web site? He used the file Zullo sent him. What does that say about his quality of work?

      That’s why I concluded long ago that all you Birthers are flaming racists. You continue to prove my point.

      • Ike says:

        It’s still deja vu. You’re regurgitating obot deceit that’s been previously debunked. In your case there’s always that possibility of pure ignorance.

        By the time the Cold Case Posse got involved in 2011 and Hayes 2 years after that the Obama birth issues were already hot-button since 2008. So hot in some quarters of government it was seen as a Third Rail that officials were afraid to touch.

        To refresh your pinhead: Hillary and her campaign started the birther movement in 2007. In December ’07 Hillary was claiming Obama was born in Indonesia, talked about his muslim roots, and at the same time Bob Kerrey was pointing out the blogs were ablaze with talk about Obama being an outlier lacking American roots per the Chris Matthews Hardball show. This was a period when Democrats were eating their own which is always a good thing.

        Following that, with all the controversy swirling over Obama’s roots & where was he born Obama releases a statement early in 2008 on his Fight the Smears website, backed up by Fact Check, that he was born a British subject & Kenyan citizen and retained that citizenship while living & going to college in America.

        That’s when the polls started showing Americans wanted answers and his bona fides released.

        We’ve never had another candidate with that type of controversy and so much of it.

        Obama’s records regarding his birth don’t need to be publicly displayed. Just allow document experts to examine them and make the determination if they are genuine and match the substitutes that have been released. Simple deal.

        Still the same ol’ RC. Brings his default position for everything: “You’re a Racist”. I hear that’s a common utterance among those that have surgically attached their lips to Obama’s ass.

        • tbfreeman says:

          The same ol’ birther lie that Hillary Clinton started the birther movement in 2007; and, again, the same ol’ lack of proof to substantiate that lie.

          Ike continues to insist upon proof (i.e., that document experts examine the original document) that no other candidate has even provided. Notwithstanding that Hawaii’s certifications and verifications already are legally conclusive.

          That some conclude these extraordinary demands are racists is unsurprising, especially given the long legacy in the United States of minorities being required to prove extraordinary proof of who they are.

          • Ike says:

            Try this for proof:

            Early January 2006, Will Hoover, a reporter for the Honolulu Advertiser, interviews Tammy Duckworth who’s now a member of Congress. The article was released in the Advertiser Jan 8, 2006. In the article Hoover plainly states:

            “Duckworth is happy to point out that she and Hawai’i-raised Punahou graduate Obama have “a kama’aina connection.”

            Both were born outside the country – Obama in Indonesia, Duckworth in Thailand – and graduated from high school in Honolulu – Punahou and McKinley, respectively.”

            Where did the reporter get the idea Obama was Indonesian born. Was it common knowledge at that time in Hawaii?

            Here’s the Chris Matthews show for Dec 18, 2007:

            Hillary as Birther Mama:

            Then there was all the Kenyan birth stories from the media during Obama’s 2004 campaign for U.S. Senator

            • tbfreeman says:

              “All” the 2004 Kenyan birth stories — yet none is shown.

              The 2006 article was corrected once the mistake was shown.

              All that Ike has shown is that people occasionally make mistakes. And that those mistakes get corrected.

            • COMALite J says:

              If the Chris Matthews Hardball segment of December 18, 2007 really had started Birtherism, then Birthers would’ve been talking about Obama being born in Indonesia, not Kenya. Show me a Birther saying that Obama was born in Indonesia, until very recently with the unearthing of this decade-old Chris Matthews video. Eye En Dee Oh En Ee Ess Eye Aye does not spell “Kenya.” Kay Ee En Wye Aye does not spell “Indonesia.”

              No, we know exactly when and by whom, and on what forums, Birtherism was started, and every major step in the chain leading to its spread. And none of it has anything at all whatsoever to do with Hillary or her campaign.

              the Birther movement was started at 1:47:59 AM PST on March 1, 2008 on the Free Republic website by an elderly (now deceased as of 2014) Iranian ex-patriot living in Santa Ana, CA, named Ali R. “Alan Peters” Pahlavan, aka Freeper “FARS” (Farsi is the native Iranian dialect of the Persian language). This is the very first mention that can be found anywhere on the Internet, or any printed work, suggesting that Obama was born in Kenya and that he was flown back to Hawaii as a newborn, as a matter of actual rumor (the same comment also claimed that Senator Obama had taken his Oath of Office on a Qur’an instead of a Bible [no, that was Congressman Keith Ellison, who is in fact Muslim, who did that — his skin tone is close enough to Obama’s to be mistaken for his in photographs of just the hand on the Qur’an] and that Obama’s father Barack H. Obama, Sr. was Arab-African, not full African [not true either]).

              His fellow Freepers immediately (as in starting in the very next comment) shot him down for posting such wild unsubstantiated rumors, but later in the thread some did express interest, so three days later, Pahlavan, using an Anglicized variant of his real Persian name, “Alan Peters,” posted on his eponymous “Ruthless Roundup” blog an expanded version asserting two of those three (not the swearing-in-on-a-Qur’an thing) more as actual allegations, not just rumors.

              Pahlavan got the idea from a well-intentioned comment posted just one day before his Free Republic rumor post (in which he even said, “I was told today that…”), posted on Leap Year Day, 2008, at 2:02 am, by one “Dave N” in response to an article by Professor Eugene Volokh on his eponymous The Volokh Conspiracy blog on the subject of whether John McCain qualified as a Natural Born Citizen (Volokh rightly asserted that he did, despite his Panamanian birth). “Dave N” tried to be helpful and posted an hypothetical (he explicitly called it that, twice) scenario as an analogy “(just for grins and giggles)” asking what the situation would be if it were Obama who was born in, say, Kenya, then flown back to Hawaii.

              That is how Birtherism started. From a hypothetical scenario posted to attempt to clarify McCain’s NBC situation by asking a “what if” about Obama instead. Seen by an elderly Iranian ex-patriot and used by him to slime Obama.

              For more info including how it spread from Pahlavan’s Alan Peters’s Ruthless Roundup blog, see Loren Collins’ summarization of his exhaustive research on the subject.

        • Assuming Birthers are racist is the logical inference from their “Show me your papers boy” arguments. Yours Ike are no different.

          • Ike says:

            According to report from the Office of the Inspector General on Birth Certificate Fraud a certified copy of a birth certificate is not enough.

            On PG. 3 & 4 of the Report: A certified copy of a birth certificate is proof only that a birth occurred and was recorded. For that purpose, it may be desirable that the public be allowed easy access to them.

            Based on that your boy Obama needs to show his original papers

            • Of course you don’t provide a link so I can’t know the context of the report. I suspect it is referring to identification. Most agencies (DMV, Department of State, etc.) require another form of ID besides a birth certificate for obtaining a drivers license, passport, or similar document. Of course since we know Barack H. Obama obtained a passport and other documents he satisfied every requirement.

              Take you racist “show me your papers boy” bullshit elsewhere. You are a dishonest racist piece of crap and always will be Ike. How sad. .

              • Ike says:

                You started it with your racist smears of millions of people. Then when you get mocked because of it you get your panties in a wad. Speech Nazis gets mad & throw tantrums when they can’t control what people say.

                Are you holding Eric Holder to your same racist standards? He called Obama his boy.

                Holder: “I’m still the President’s wing-man, so I’m there with my boy.”

                Here’s the link to the Report:

                https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf

                I’ve given you that link before when we discussed it.

                • tbfreeman says:

                  No one thinks Holder’s use of “my boy” was anything other than a term of affection.

                  The same cannot be said of birthers, especially when they cannot articulate any rational reason for their beliefs.

            • tbfreeman says:

              Ike is quoting a 2000 report from the DHHS: https://oig.hhs.gov/oei/reports/oei-07-99-00570.pdf

              The full paragraph states: “A certified copy of a birth certificate is proof only that a birth occurred and was recorded. For that purpose, it may be desirable that the public be allowed easy access to them. However, the agencies and organizations that use birth certificates as proof of identification for employment purposes, to obtain benefits or other documents (e.g., driver’s licenses, Social Security cards, and passports), and to assist them in determining eligibility for public assistance and other benefits, may have concerns with how easily certified copies of birth certificates can be obtained. These conflicting perspectives are at the very heart of the birth certificate controversy.”

              In other words, the DHHS is merely noting the competing concerns applicable to literally every person who has a birth certificate. Yet Ike is concerned with only one person’s birth certificate, for reasons that he can’t articulate. Leaving it to the observer to infer his motive.

              • Ike says:

                Geez! Are you for real?

                The primary subject matter of this thread is about only one person’s birth certificate. Duh.

                I articulated my position on Obama’s birth certificate with my 1st post (drive-by) on 6/11.

                Motive? RC claimed I’ve never been interested in an honest discussion even though I’ve taken him & his fellow-travelers on many times. So I came into the Belly of the Beast to give yas a shot at that honest discussion.

                I recommend you read the whole Inspector General’s Report. Note all the fraud by employees in the vital records department that was uncovered.

                • tbfreeman says:

                  Are you for real, or just a Russian ‘bot?

                  On July 11, you expressed an irrational fear over one person’s birth certificate, yet showed no “concern” for the same “problems” that could be raised about literally every birth certificate. Your inability to articulate why your “concerns” are so specifically focused leaves room for the reader to infer other, darker motives.

                  And in “support,” you cited a 2000 report about birth certificates generally — a report that says NOTHING about Obama or even Hawaii. All your “concern” about “fraud by employees in the vital records department that was uncovered” is irrelevant to Obama’s birth certificate.

    • COMALite J says:

      Reed Hayes is wrong on that. Even if the original document housed at the Hawaii Department of Health were examined (which it can’t be for the very real logistical reasons I explained and which you dismissed as “longwinded [sic] psychobabble” did you even read it before Replying? I read every word of your comments, so fair’s fair — don’t Reply to mine again until you have read them and clicked and fully read any links I included in them), there could still be no absolute certainty. Someone could’ve faked it somehow even in the Vital Records vault. Maybe someone snuck out the original 1961 birth certificate bound volume and made a duplicate that and the hundreds of birth certificates in it, with a faked up Obama one inserted in just the right place, then snuck it back in.

      There can never be absolute certainty of anything, other than your own existence (“I think, therefore I am”). Even if a time traveler took you back to watch Obama being born in Hawaii with your own eyeballs, well, maybe it was an alternate timeline, amiright? Birthers will never be satisified, no matter what evidence is presented, because they already decided that Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii. They cannot accept that he became President of the United States, and served two terms and did a quite decent (not perfect by any means) job at it.

      Thing is, satisfying Birthers isn’t the requirement. Absolute certainty isn’t the requirement. The requirement for legal evidence is that it be the preponderance of evidence for civil matters (which this qualifies as), and even for criminal matters it’s simply proven beyond reasonable doubt. Time travelers are not reasonable doubt. Marvel Comics Skrull or Popupian or D.C. Comics Martian or Durlan shapeshifters are not reasonable doubt (they would be in those respective comics universes [which brings up the question of how anybody could ever be convicted of anyone there — “It wasn’t me, Your Honor! Yes, it looks like me on those surveillance videos and the witnesses described me, but it was The Changeling or Mystique or a Martian!”]).

      And someone forging Obama’s long form while obtaining the certification of the Hawaii Department of Health and its Republican Governor, and doing so in such a way that it just happens to look like the results would be if a genuine birth certificate certified copy were scanned upside-down on a Xerox WorkCentre Model 7655 and rotated 180° in Mac OS X 10.8.6. “Snow Leopard” Preview instead of Adobe Acrobat 9 (the latest version at the time) for Mac OS, is not reasonable doubt.

      Obama released his birth certificate twice, in two legally valid formats (“short form” Certification of Live Birth in mid-June of 2008, and “long form” Certficate of Live Birth on April 27, 2011). No other President, nor candidate for President, had ever shown even one before Obama. Why did you not demand that of them, hmmmmmmmm!?

      Or did you? I’ll give you the same chance I gave your fellow travelers here: post a link in your next Reply here to post or comment by you on any forum that shows datestamps for the posts or comments and does not permit editing of same (or at least indicates if the comment was edited), using either your same username or one that you can prove that you control, that was dated before Obama was running, in which you expressed the same level of concern about and demanded the same level of proof of Natural Born Citizen bona-fides for George W. Bush or any other previous President or candidate — even a Democratic one such as Clinton. Either do that, or admit that you cannot. Failure to do one or the other in your next Reply will constitute an implied concession of complete and utter defeat on your part regarding the entire Birtherism issue.

      The 2008-posted Certification of Live Birth (“short form”) stated at the bottom that it constituted Prima Facie evidence of Hawaiian birth for all legal purposes. Do you know what “prima facie evidence” means? It means evidence so overwhelmingly above and beyond the legal level of certainty required that it actually shifts the burden of proof to the other side even if the burden of proof would otherwise have been on the side presenting the evidence (which it wasn’t — again, no prior President: not George Washington, not George . Bush, and not anyone in-between, had presented a birth certificate of any kind!).

      Got that? We don’t have to prove that the birth certificate was genuine. The State of Hawaii did so to the full legal requirements necessary, and more. Your side has to prove that it was forged! Where’s your proof? Your side has had to walk back every bit of “evidence of forgery” that they’ve tried to present to date. We haven’t had to walk back any of our points. The “9 Points of Forgery” video was Birtherism’s last gasp, and it failed miserably. In fact, I can prove that it was itself deliberately fraudulent, not just incompetent. I can do so right from the video itself.

      I’ll post my proof just as soon as you post your link to a comment by you dated back then expressing equal concern over Bush’s or any President’s prior to Obama’s Natural Born Citizen bona-fides, or an admission that you cannot. I’ll do so using just their own video.

  15. stanely21 says:

    This article is really a kind of a sad attempt to throw you off track. What the detective did is show, very clearly, that the document is a fraud. Whoever submitted the PDF to Whitehouse.gov neflected to flatten the image which would have eliminated the composite layers they used to manufacture it, using fragments from other scanned documents. A major boo-boo for Obama’s handlers. All you have to do is open the PDF in an Adobe program and see the layers for yourself. A digital scan of any birth certificate from 1961 would naturally be comprised of one layer. Its really quite simple, there’s no escaping it.

    • I will reply in line.

      This article is really a kind of a sad attempt to throw you off track. What the detective did is show, very clearly, that the document is a fraud. …

      You know that how? No, the article clearly shows that the parts that Zullo claimed were copied from the Ahnee certificate were not copied because they are not identical. This can be ascertained even from the fuzzy video Zullo Mark Gillar produced. By the way no proof has ever been presented that Zullo was ever a detective.

      Whoever submitted the PDF to Whitehouse.gov neflected [sic] to flatten the image which would have eliminated the composite layers they used to manufacture it, using fragments from other scanned documents. A major boo-boo for Obama’s handlers. All you have to do is open the PDF in an Adobe program and see the layers for yourself. …

      Where to begin..
      First You can’t even name the Adobe software that one can use to see the “layers”. Have you actually examined the layers in this document? There are nine of them and half of them contain nothing more than speckles and random bits of the document. As I have shown in other articles the layers that contain most of the information fit exactly how a compression algorithm used in a Xerox WorkCentre would deconstruct a complex image containing both graphics and text to use MRC and JBIG2 compression and produce a very small PDF file.

      If the document were produced using a graphics program like Adobe Photoshop the final output would be an image file like a JPEG. It would not contain layers when converted to a PDF unless it were printed and scanned on something like a Xerox WorkCentre to PDF format.

      A digital scan of any birth certificate from 1961 would naturally be comprised of one layer. Its really quite simple, there’s no escaping it.

      This statement alone shows that your knowledge about the subject about which you are trying to opine is minuscule. I doesn’t matter when the birth certificate was filed. Any document of this type from any year when scanned on a Xerox WorkCentre is going to produce layers when scanned to PDF. I demonstrated this by scanning a printout of Johanna Ahnee’s birth certificate to PDF on a Xerox WorkCentre.

    • Mark Billison says:

      A real expert and forensic image analyst disagrees with your comment. The layers are common for PDFs.

      https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/428-After-Birth.html

    • COMALite J says:

      Funny thing. This comment was just posted today, less than an hour ago, on one of your own YouTube Birther-rebuttal videos, by one “Jay James”:

      This video is disinformation. Its [sic] really a lot simpler than this. All you have to do is open the PDF in an Adobe editing program and see the layers for yourself. A digital scan of any single page document would naturally be comprised of one layer. That’s how digital scans work – one document, one scan, one layer. Whoever submitted this multiple layered PDF to Whitehousegov neglected to flatten the image first. This would have eliminated the fragments and composite layers they imported from other scanned documents, and flattened them like a pancake into one single layer scan. This was a major boo-boo for Obama’s handlers. Its really quite simple, there’s no escaping it. What the detective did is show, very clearly, that the document is a fraud.

      Reality Check, please check the IP address of stanley21. I smell a Russian trollbot operation.

  16. stanely21 says:

    Nice try, but nothing you’ve said will change the facts.

  17. Ike says:

    tbfreeman says:
    July 8, 2018 at 8:34 pm
    The short form was entered and accepted into evidence in Georgia ballot challenge in 2012.

    Why it is good enough for the judge but not good enough for you is your problem, alone.

    Reply
    Ike says:
    July 9, 2018 at 8:58 am
    2nd request: Will you provide something that will SHOW the SHORT FORM being used as PROOF in a court case.

    Reply
    tbfreeman says:
    July 9, 2018 at 3:30 pm
    The familiar sound of a birther moving a goalpost!

    In the 2012 Georgia ballot case, Obama’s birth certificate was introduced into evidence. There are multiple contemporaneous blog posts about this happening; surely a bright boy like yourself can operate a search engine to find at least one. Hint: try Dr. Conspiracy’s site.

    The judge in Georgia then ruled that, due to Obama being born in the United States, he was a natural-born citizen. The judge’s ruling sure seems to “SHOW” that the birth certificate was “use as PROOF in a court case.”

    Why, in 2018, that you are still obsessed with a 2012 ballot challenge is YOUR problem, alone.
    “““““`
    The Verdict is now in: You, tbfreeman, are a failure. You could not provide proof of your claim that the Short Form was received into evidence in court cases, not even one time.

    • Mark Billison says:

      See my post above. Abercrombie never said he was going to release or look for the birth certificate. He always said he was going to do only what he was leagally able to do (unilaterally releasing the birth certificate was not an option) and that he was not going to ask President Obama for permission to release it.

      In the Star Advertiser interview from January, 2011, he said something was written down in the state archive but he never hinted, suggested or implied that there was no original long form birth certificate at the DOH. That was faulty reporting by ABC and the Mail.

      I have proved you with links to the original December, 2010 interviews by the New York Times and CNN as well as the January, 2011 Star Advertiser interview. All other reports are based on those three interviews.

      • Ike says:

        1st I’ll say thx for moving it here; THX. I’m having a problem finding reply buttons.

        You’re using the Times & CNN. Both well known to be part of the Obama psycophant media, and who are now part of the Destroy Trump media. Hard for me to accept you have it right using them.

        Those last 4 paragraphs in the Advertiser by Abercrombie are weaselly the way he put it. He claims there’s a recording of a birth (who’s birth), not a birth certificate. He claims he was told it was written down. So all he has really said is there’s a recording of someone’s birth written down and he wants to verify that to anyone that’s honest about it. Geez, what a weasel.

        The interview with Ed Henry was nothing but an emotional appeal to Obama’s supporters in Hawaii.

        What I’m still puzzled about is why he didn’t send someone in to the Health Dept to verify the claim of an original Obama birth certificate being stored there. It’s claimed Linda Lingle did. Both were governors with the same authority.

        You’ll have to explained to me what Abercrombie actually accomplished. It looks like just a lot of grandstanding. I can’t see where he proved anything.

        • Ike says:

          That should be (whose birth) in 3rd paragraph.

        • Mark Bellison says:

          “You’re using the Times & CNN.”

          I used them because they are the original source of the story. ABC, CBS, The Mail used the Times and the CNN interviews to write their stories. Also they show as what Abercrombie actually promised to do and that he never promised to release the birth certificate..

          “What I’m still puzzled about is why he didn’t send someone in to the Health Dept to verify the claim of an original Obama birth certificate being stored there’

          Because it had already been verified as being stored there – twice by the Director of Health, Dr. Fukino. Why would he believe that a third public statement that the DOH has the original Obama birth certificate solve things?

          “You’ll have to explained to me what Abercrombie actually accomplished.”

          He didn’t accomplish his original goal which was to find something he could release other than the birth certificate to end the Birthers. But it was a goal that was bound to fail. Birthers didn’t accept the certified copy of the birth certificate, they didn’t accept two statements from the Director of Health, the publicly available birth index, and the contemporaneous newspaper birth announcements. And they still don’t accept the released long form birth certificate and the three certified letters of verification. There is no evidence that will satisfy you.

        • tbfreeman says:

          “You’re using the Times & CNN. Both well known to be part of the Obama psycophant media, and who are now part of the Destroy Trump media.”

          The articles are from 2010. Either the current president has a time machine, or Ike is paranoid.

          “Hard for me to accept you have it right using them.”

          What Ike finds hard to accept is his concern alone. But, oh, the irony: Ike relies on known lies from Mike Evans; it is easy to reject his reliance on them.

          “What I’m still puzzled about is why he didn’t send someone in to the Health Dept to verify the claim of an original Obama birth certificate being stored there. It’s claimed Linda Lingle did.”

          Lingle sent the health director to personally view Obama’s birth certificate, who reported Obama was born in Hawaii. Birthers were unconvinced. Why would Abercrombie think birthers would be satisfied if he did this as well when they weren’t satisfied when Lingle did it?

          Just about everybody agrees that Abercrombie isn’t very articulate, and that his attempt to settle this matter didn’t accomplish anything. None of which is relevant to the only issue: The State of Hawaii repeatedly has certified and verified that Obama was born there.

          That Ike refuses to accept this is his concern alone.

    • COMALite J says:

      Hey, Ike, you seem to need some help with the situation you find yourself in here. Believe it or not, there is a way to save face and redeem your credibility! Sorry, but further backpedaling your pedal-driven goalpost-mover machine ain’t it. Since you apparently don’t know how, I’ll give you complete, step-by-step instructions:

      • Step 1a: Click the “Reply” link below this comment or any of the numerous other ones in this thread wherein you were handed your @$$ by any of us “Obots.”

      • Step 1b: In the resulting “Leave a Reply…” comment area, click on the text area wherein you enter the content of your Reply. You should then see a flashing text bar cursor in the upper left corner of that text area.

      • Step 2a: Look at your keyboard. Over on the left side, second row from the bottom, you’ll see a large key. It’s labeled “⇑ Shift”. Press and hold this [⇑ Shift ] key with your left pinky finger.

      • Step 2b: While still holding that key down, hover your right index fingertip over the top row of keys on the typewriter-like alphanumeric portion of the keyboard. These are all small keys. Most of them have numerals (digits) as their bottom labels, and a punctuation symbol as the top label. The digits are in numerical order (except that zero [0] follows nine [9]), so it’s easy to find the spot we’re looking for: you need to hover the fingertip between two keys, namely, the one labeled [*8] and the one next to it labeled [(9] (the labels here are shown horizontally separated, but actually they’re vertically separated: the punctuation symbol is on top of the digit). Now, move your fingertip down one row, and it should be hovering over a key labeled [I]. Press and release that key, then release the [⇑ Shift ] key. You should see “I” appear in the “Comments:” edit box, with the bar cursor now flashing just to the right of it.

      • Step 2c: finally, with either thumb, press and release the widest key on the keyboard, one that has no label at all. This is called the “space bar.” You should see no text change in the box, but the flashing bar cursor should move slightly to the right, a very short distance away from the “I” that you created in Step 2b.

      • Step 3a: Remember how we used the top row of number keys to help find a letter key in Step 2b? Well, let’s do it again: this time, we need to hover our left index fingertip between the [@2] and [#3] keys, then move down one row. The key that your fingertip should now be hovering over should be labeled [W]. Press and release it, and remember it because we’re going to need it again in Step 4a. You should now see a “w” appear a short distance to the right of the “I” with a small space between them, and the flashing bar cursor now just to the right of the newly-created “w.”

      Step 3b: With your left fingertip still on or above the [W] key, move it down one row and to the left one key so that hovers over the [A] key. Press and release it, and voila! “a” has now been added just after the “w”, and the flashing bar cursor is now just to the right of the newly-created “a”!

      Step 3c: Now move your left fingertip one key to the right from the [A] key that you just pressed. This key is the [S] key. Press and release it, and “s” gets added to the right of the “wa” which is a short distance from the “I” from Step 1. So far, you should see “I was” with the flashing bar cursor just to the right of the newly-created “s”!

      Step 3d is the same as Step 2c, namely, press the space bar. Again, the flashing bar cursor should move a short distance to the right, visibly separated from the “s.”

      Step 4a: Remember how I told you back in Step 3a that we’d need the [W] key again? Now’s the time! If you forgot where it is, fear not: your left fingertip should still be hovering near the [S] key, and it’s one row up and slightly to the left of that! Press and release it. You should now see a second “w” appear a short distance to the right of the “s” with a small space between them, and the flashing bar cursor now just to the right of the newly-created “w.”

      Step 4b: move your left fingertip not one, but two, keys to the right of the [W] key. It should now be hovering over the [R] key. Press and release it. You should now see an “r” appear just to the right of the “w”, and the flashing bar cursor now just to the right of the newly-created “r.”

      Step 4c: If you haven’t moved your right hand much since Step 2b, its index fingertip should still be hovering over or near the [I] key. The one that we want now is just to the right of that: the [O] key. If you lost track of that, you can find it easily by using the numbers trick: this key is just one row below the space between the [(9] and [)0] keys. You should know what to do by now: press and release it, and watch the “o” appear, with the bar cursor moving to just past it.

      Step 4d: Now it gets a bit tricky. Move the right index fingertip not just one, but two, keys to the left, so that it’s hovering over the [U] key. That’s not the one we want to press, though: now, move the fingertip down not one, but two rows. It should now be hovering over the [N] key. Press and release it. “n” appears.

      Step 4e: Back to the left index fingertip, which we last left in Step 4b hovering over the [R] key. Move it over one to the right so that it now hovers over the [T] key, then down one row so that it hovers over the [G] key. Press and release that. “g” appears.

      Step 4f: Actually, your message as it exists now would be good enough for most people, but just to satisfy the grammar Nazis, move the left fingertip (which should still be hovering over the [N] key) three keys to the right, so that it hovers over a key labeled [>.]. Press and release that.

      Step 5: Below the text area, enter your Email and Name if not already present (it already should be since you’ve been posting here so much). Click [ Post Comment ].

      There. That wasn’t so hard, now, was it? Why do so few people ever do this?

      • Ike says:

        “Click the “Reply” link below this comment or any of the numerous other ones in this thread wherein you were handed your @$$ by any of us “Obots.””

        You have a serious delusional problem.

    • tbfreeman says:

      “You could not provide proof of your claim that the Short Form was received into evidence in court cases, not even one time.”

      I’ve proven that you are intellectually dishonest — and lazy. I’ve specified the court case in which it happened; I’ve cited contemporaneous commentary that it occurred; and the judge’s ruling specifies that he considered the evidence presented and that Obama was born in the United States. (And, notably, Ike does not even deny that any of these things happened.) That this proof is somehow not sufficient is your concern alone — even the current president has said that Obama was born in the United States (period).

      But, “for fun”: the long form was introduced into evidence in a Mississippi court. So that’s two courts.

      And Ike still cannot specify why he has doubts about Obama’s. Yet he still continues to wonder why people might infer dark motives.

      • Ike says:

        tbfreeman says:
        July 8, 2018 at 8:34 pm
        “The short form was entered and accepted into evidence in Georgia ballot challenge in 2012.”
        ““““““““““““““
        That’s not true. It was the long form submitted by Orly and I think, if I remember correctly, it was at the time labeled a forgery or bogus.

        I knew about that case.

        So we have to conclude since you couldn’t find any there never was a court case where Obama used that great prima facie evidence.

        How strange is that?

        What are the ‘dark motives’?

        • tbfreeman says:

          How do you know it was the long form? (You of course have a link, right?)

          Whether it was the long or short form, of course, is a distinction without a difference: the long form ALSO is prima facie evidence of Obama’s Hawaiian birth — which no one has rebutted. Regardless of the certificate’s format, Obama’s birth certificate was filed with the Georgia court, and the court used it when concluding that Obama’s Hawaiian birth was sufficient to confer him natural-born citizenship.

          And BIRTHERS labeled the long form “a forgery or bogus.” No one cares about their fantasies — the Georgia court certainly didn’t.

          Dark motives is what some may infer about your irrational obsession with one person’s birth certificate.

          • Ike says:

            “How do you know it was the long form? (You of course have a link, right?)”

            For reasons I was following that case in January 2012. I don’t need a link. Some of your fellow Obots that are here posting with you were also following that case at that time. Instead of chiming in and helping you get it right they allowed you to make a fool of yourself for 5 days. With friends like that who needs enemies, eh?

            If you want it straight from the horses mouth go see Dr Con. He’ll give you the skinny on it.

            “Whether it was the long or short form, of course, is a distinction without a difference”

            Talk about moving the goal posts to cover-up the point I was making. There most certainly is a difference. Though neither form is an original, it’s fraudulent to claim the short form as a copy or reproduction of a original birth certificate for Obama. I’ve seen a lot of people doing that.

            “Dark motives is what some may infer about your irrational obsession with one person’s birth certificate.”

            My irrational obsession? What do you call what was going on in here with you Obots before I did my Drive By comment? How about pathological fixation on a piece of paper?

            • tbfreeman says:

              “There most certainly is a difference.”

              Yet Ike can’t articulate a meaningful legal difference between the long and short forms, as both are sufficient legal proof of place of birth that are accepted everywhere. Except for by birthers, of course, who can’t even articulate why they are so obsessed with one person’s birth certificate.

              But thanks for agreeing that Obama’s birth certificate was entered into evidence in a court of law, and that the court used Obama’s birth certificate as proof he was born in Hawaii. That Ike can’t do the same is his problem alone.

              “What do you call what was going on in here with you Obots before I did my Drive By comment?”

              Poking fun at idiots, like Ike; duh.

            • Never once in court was the long form called a forgery by a judge let alone anyone with any knowledge of it. I see you’re still as dumb as ever Ike. No one ever gets their original. No president has produced an “original”. All one gets is a copy.

              • Ike says:

                To the best of my knowledge the person who entered the Long Form for that case is on record calling it a forgery or fake document.

                I’m no expert on the law suits against Obama. I followed at the most maybe 15. Freeman bringing in the Long Form was a red herring to subvert what was the subject matter; Short Form and why wasn’t it used in court as proof. That’s over more than a 2 1/2 year period.

                I sent him to Dr Con, who for reasons, knows a hell of a lot more about that case than I would. If I got it wrong then it’s to my benefit to correct it.

                Who said anything about giving Obama his original, if in fact one does exist.

                I know you were in on some of the long debates/arguments we had in the past on many sites. Some went over 500, 1000, and one even went over 7000 on comments. So you know both Comalite & Freeman are doing a lot of spinning.

                After reading the rulings & opinions by judges in some of the earlier cases I put very little stock in what they say.

                • tbfreeman says:

                  The “subject matter” of this article is the long form; more specifically, Zullo and Gillar’s laughable claims about it. If it was the long form (as you claim) that was accepted into evidence in a court case, then discussing how real judges in real courts relied on it as proof of Obama’s Hawaiian birth is relevant to this topic. You see, in the real world, Hawaii’s certifications are sufficient proof, whereas Zullo’s dog-and-pony show was ignored as the lame grift it was.

                  Why the short form was never used (as you claim) is simple: there was no need for it to be used. Nothing requires a candidate to prove their place of birth, and birthers — 10 years later — still have no evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii.

                  “After reading the rulings & opinions by judges in some of the earlier cases I put very little stock in what they say.”

                  In the reality-based world, judges are the lawgivers. Our society looks to them for decisions, and acts based on those decisions. Only a birther would, child-like, think he could ignore a ruling he didn’t like.

                • Who do you claim entered it in the record and claimed it was a forgery? Are you still trying to claim Alexandra Hill called the BC a forgery in Judge Masin’s court? Because she did not. This is a long running birther lie.

  18. Ike says:

    Trump flipped on his SCOTUS nomination. Names Brett Kavanaugh.

    Here’s his original pick:

  19. COMALite J says:

    Quoth Ike at 11:04 ㏂ on July 9:

    The primary subject matter of this thread is about only one person’s birth certificate. Duh.

    Quoth Ike at 7:36 ㏂ on July 13;

    Posting on Friday the 13th? Ouch! ~Grin~

    Apples & oranges.

    Let’s remember what the subject matter is being discussed.

    Your questions & statements are all relevant for another subject.

    No, the primary subject matter of this thread, the subject matter intended to be discussed here is, and I copy-paste quote from the title: “Overlay of Obama and Ah’Nee Birth Certificates Shows the Latest Cold Case Posse Forgery ‘Theory’ Is Nonsense.” First off: that’s two people’s birth certificates right there, not just Obama. Ah’Nee’s is relevant to this thread as well. Thus, you’re demonstrably wrong about “the primary subject matter of this thread…” being “… about only one person’s birth certificate,”

    So, if you’re going to insist that we stick to the “primary subject matter of this thread” and “the subject matter … being discussed” and disclaim attempts to bring up relevant information (such as the fact that no President nor candidate for President nor Vice President prior to 2008 was ever even asked to show a birth certificate to prove his Natural Born Citizenship bona-fides [McCain was the first to be asked because there was real if legally unjustified concern given that he was born in Panama, and Obama was the first to actually show one, and he did it on two occasions in two separate legally valid forms]) by claiming that they’re “all relevant for another subject,” fine. How about if we lay a ground rule here that if you violate your own rule and unilaterally diverge from that subject (the overlaying of the Obama and Ah’Nee birth certificates and how same utterly demolishes the Birthers’ lasp gasp, the Mark Gillar “9 Points of Forgery” video that Pastor Gallups has on his official PNN YouTube channel and Arpaio showed at his last-ever Birther press conference) ever again in this thread, that Reality Check will delete every comment you’ve made and block every IP address range you’ve used to visit here from even reading this site in the future. Deal?

    You say we should stick to “the primary subject matter of this thread”? Okay, then. You can, of course, reply to someone else directly addressing you on some other subject, but if you bring up, unprompted, anything other than the matter of the “9 Points of Forgery” video and its disproven assertions, and in particular how the overlaying of the two birth certificates utterly disproves that video’s assertions, out you and all your words here go, since you say that we should stick with “the primary subject matter of this thread.” Reality Check, would you agree with this? No more talking about court cases and the like (except in direct response to someone else replying to or addressing you specifically, who initially brings them up), because those are not — repeat: not!! — “the primary subject matter of this thread.” Remember, Ike, this is your proposed rule that you’ve insisted on twice now, as if you were the owner of this blog and not Reality Check.

    Now: what do you have to refute specifically the directly observed fact that the “9 Points of Forgery” video, which is the last gasp of Birtherism, fails miserably and that Mark Gillar is either astoundingly incompetent or deliberately and maliciously deceptive?

    • COMALite J says:

      To clarify, Ike: you don’t get to decide what is and what is not “the primary subject matter of this thread” and bind others to it, whilst yourself feeling free to bring up all manner of unrelated diversions and digressions. This is RC Radio Blog, not “Ike’s Idiocy Blog.” Fair’s fair. If you choose to not follow the rule you’ve requested, you can say so now, but then from now on you will address any question asked of you and may not claim that it’s not relevant to the primary subject matter of this thread or the subject being discussed.

      You can start with answering Pogue Moran’s questions from 11:45 ㏂ on July 13 regarding Trump’s lack of showing the same information and documentation you insisted that Obama show. Either answer that question and the others that you earlier tried to deflect with that tactic (namely, why you’re only concerned about Obama’s birth certificate and not that of any other President nor candidate for President, none of whom have shown a birth certificate, and none of whom have even been asked to — you originally tried that tactic against tbfreeman who challenged you on that, but s/he wasn’t the only one: Reality Check and others here, including yours truly, have repeatedly asked you that [I asked you to post a link to an unedited post or comment posted by you and date-stamped before Obama was running for President, in which you expressed concern about the complete absence of a publicly released copy of, say, George W. Bush’s birth certificate — or anyone else from George Washington through GWB inclusive]). And that’s when you decided to “enforce” “the primary subject matter of this thread.”

      So, one or the other: either abide by the rule you yourself have now twice suggested on penalty of permanent expulsion and complete wiping of all traces of your presence here, or rescind the rule and answer the questions people ask of you even if about someone else’s birth certificate or other records or some other subject that you deem not “the subject … being discussed.”

      Pick one. You don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too.

      • Posting about the the items Trump has not released that Ike isn’t concerned about (like tax returns, school records, and non-fraudulent medical records) are exactly on point and illustrate what flaming racists Ike and the other Birthers like Sharon Rondeau are.

        • I don’t care about Trump’s school records since it’s obvious he skated through due to his family wealth. I only care about his medical records because the ones that were released were a laughable joke and obviously false. It turned out the letter his personal physician released was dictated by Trump.

          I would like to see his tax returns because they would show he has lied about his net worth.

        • Ike says:

          How does telling a whopper about my concerns on Trump’s records illustrate that I’m a flaming racist, when I stated very plainly to Pogue ALL his questions & statements on Trump’s records are relevant, but for another subject?

          Trump’s records have no bearing on Obama’s. Just as Bush43’s records have no relevancy in a debate on Trump’s records.

          Madness keeps rising, while common sense suffers.

          • You’ve bent over backwards to try twist Gov. Abercrombie’s statements both before and after taking office into something sinister that they are not – with a dose of Mike Evans lies tossed in. Yet like every other Birther you’ve never produced proof you’ve ever questioned the legitimacy of any other president including the current one.

            As I have said before the Birther movement was from the beginning nothing more than a “show me your papers black boy” pile of racist bullshit.

            Edit: A Birther whining about common sense is a real knee slapper.

            • Ike says:

              Something sinister? You’re embellishing it. I think he was grandstanding, putting-on-airs, appealing to emotions, and never had any intention of releasing anything..

              Evans, who said he loved Abercrombie, called him a liberal nut (job ?) who became almost militant whenever anyone questioned him about Obama’s birth. I don’t dismiss what Evans stated on those radio stations. The fact is Abercrombie talked a good game but never produced anything – diddly-squat. I’ve never seen any statement from Abercrombie denying what Evans claims he said. Have you? And as reported at the time, Abercrombie went into seclusion and did not accept calls for comments on what Evans said.

              Obama & Cruz are the only ones I can think of I questioned on eligibility. Politics aside, had no problem with McCain’s. I did question Kerry & Bush43’s records on other issues.

              Black boy? Nope, it doesn’t have a good ring to it. How about you going with the N-word or Darky? Both have always been popular on your Obot sites when referring to Obama.

              Trump’s records are fair game just like Obama’s. Remember what Obama said in the beginning on records?

              “You know, I think what’s important if you’re running for president is that the American people know who you are, what you’ve done and that you’re an open book….”
              ~ candidate, Barack Obama

              So do you intend to mount a campaign against Trump with ‘show me your records white boy’?

              Now for the umpteenth & final time: I have nothing but contempt, which started back during the last century, for the Democrat party. Never voted for a Democrat for president, and I’ve voted a straight republican tickets I believe since 2000.

              • Ike

                Why should we take you seriously when you are too ignorant to know the name of one of two major political parties? No anti-Birther site has ever called President Obama any of the names you mentioned other than to either quote Birthers directly or infer Birthers feelings about him. Your word games bore me.

                You had plenty of opportunities to demand that Trump release his tax returns at sites like Birther Reports. Maybe you you could link such a comment? No? You only seem to be obsessed with one President.

              • tbfreeman says:

                Ike expected Abercrombie to affirmatively rebut Evans’ self-admitted lies? Further proof that Ike hears only what he wants to hear.

                Ike says that the current president’s records are fair game, but he won’t lift a finger to inquire about them. Further showing his obsession with exactly one person’s birth certificate.

                And everyone knows that birthers’ doubts about Cruz’s eligibility were just a stalking horse for Obama’s: no birther ever said that Obama was eligible but Cruz was not.

                Unsurprising that Ike sought to deflect the accusation of racism by accusing others of racism — all without proof, of course.

              • Also, I don’t care about Trump’s records other than to laugh at them. His medical record releases were a joke. You had to be an idiot not to know that both doctors were lying. His first release of the ceremonial hospital certificate as if it were a real certified birth certificate was also a hoot.

                What I care about Trump is that he is a lying piece of crap and life long racist who is doing damage that will take years to undo. I think his supporters are either racists and/or complete morons who don’t give a crap about our democracy and the rule of law. As a human being he is complete filth.

                Unlike you and the Birthers I am not obsessed over his records. What I care about is the fact that he is a dangerous psychopath who lies with every breath he takes.

            • COMALite J says:

              I’m a-gonna kinda-sorta come to Ike’s defense on one matter: I can think of a few reasons other than racism for him to be doing what he’s doing here.

              Religion. Dominionists really wanted McCain to win in 2008, because he’d chosen Sarah Palin as his running mate. Palin is more extremist than a mere evangelical, or even a garden-variety Dominionist, or even a Christian Reconstructionist (who think that the Dominionists don’t go nearly far enough). Her Wasilla Church is part of the Third Wave of the Holy Spirit movement, which they themselves call “Joel’s Army” after the army of demonic locusts prophesied in Joel Chapter 2. The Third Wavers think that the Christian Reconstructionists don’t go nearly far enough. So extremist are they that the Assemblies of God denomination from which the originated, itself heavily steeped in both Dominionism and the far-more-extremist Christian Reconstructionist movements, actually kicked the “Joel’s Army” churches (including the Wasilla Church) out of their denomination for being too extremist even for them!! Ever see the documentary “Jesus Camp¨? This is the specific cult behind those camps.

              YouTube Video ID #UgD7LQXVJ8o (not going to paste the URL as that would embed the video here) is over an hour long and is the full final session of an apparently several-day revival or some such held at the Wasilla Church in which a certain visiting pastor from an African nation describes their goals, then does a little something else.

              For now, just a short snippet of that (but do watch the whole thing when you have time):

              That’s Pastor Thomas Muthee (pronounced “moothee”) and as you might’ve guessed from his skin color and accent, he’s from Africa. Hes an actual witch hunter, in the literal sense. His activities have helped lead to the deaths of innocent women in his native country. (Want some real irony? Guess what his native country is. C’mon. Guess. Guess where this guy’s from. Are you sitting down? KENYA!!

              The “seven areas of society” he’s talking about there that he says that the Army must take over and rule in the name of (their ultra-extremist version of) Jesus — well, the Third Wavers have a name for that belief: the “Seven Mountains mandate.” (Their ultra-extremist version of) God has commanded them to take over those seven areas of society, you see, to rule them on His behalf in the name of (their ultra-extremist version of) Jesus. (Maybe they should look up exactly where the two-word phrase “seven mountains” is found in End Times Prophecy, or anywhere else in the Bible for that matter? It does appear in one place — but not a place that speaks well for them being on God’s side [neither does their self-identifying with an army of demonic locusts, for that matter]: “And here is the mind that hath wisdom: the seven heads [of the Scarlet-Coloured Beast — more on that in a bit] are seven mountains on which the woman [the Mystery, Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots] sitteth.” — Revelation 17:6, KJV)

              But did you see what happened in there? Muthee and other pastors there joined together to anoint Sarah Palin to take over and rule America (as the first step in taking over the world) in the name of (their ultra-extremist version of) Jesus! That means that Sarah Palin is the Lᴏʀᴅ’s Anointed! Nothing is supposed to be able to thwart the Lᴏʀᴅ’s Anointed! It was the Manifest Will of (their ultra-extremist version of) Almighty God that already elderly and then-twice-melanoma-cancer-victim McCain win the election, see Palin safely in the Vice Presidency, then (their ultra-extremist version of) God would “take McCain home” and Sarah would become President and take over America with the Seven Mountains mandate.

              And yet, lo! McCain went down in defeat, and that means that the Lᴏʀᴅ’s Anointed Sarah Palin also went down in defeat! But how!? Who could thwart the Manifest Will of Almighty God? The Antichrist (a phrase not actually found in End Times Prophecy nor anywhere in the Bible)? Now you know why so many back then were claiming that Obama must be “the Anti-Christ,” for who else could even temporarily thwart the Manifest Will of Almighty God?

              For more on “Joel’s Army” and the Seven Mountains mandate, see this decade-old DKos diary from around that time.

              So, Ike, if it isn’t racism that drives you to do this here as you claim, is it religion? Are you a Third Waver or even a Christian Reconstructionist, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR — aka “NARasites” for their tactic of “steeplejacking” [taking over moderate churches and even whole denominations from within and converting them to NARasite teachings] — though I also like to call them “NARisees” for doing and espousing the same sort of things that Jesus Himself roundly condemned the Pharisees of old for doing, namely, trying to mix Church and State), Theonomist, Dominion Theologist, or any other flavor of Dominionist, or even just a Dispensationalist (so-called “generic” “just plain” “non-denominational” “Born-Again” “Christian” who believes in salvation by grace alone, Accepting Jesus Christ as Personal Savior, the primacy of Paul and his teachings, “the Rapture” [a word found a grand total of zero times in the Bible], etc.), etc.? Do you feel that God wanted Sarah Palin to be President by McCain winning and then God would “take McCain home”? Is that why you’re grasping at any straws you can think of that would keep him from having been the legitimate President of the USA?

              If not, there’s only one other reason I can think of for someone being this insistent on such a divisive issue: you’re getting paid by Putin’s goons to help tear down America from within by keeping this divisive and devastatingly harmful Birtherism thing going (without which Donald Trump would never even have run for President nor become politically relevant at all).

              So, which is it? Religion or Russia? Or is it racism after all? Gotta be one of the Three “R”s.

          • tbfreeman says:

            Exactly: Ike’s highly selective obsession with exactly one person’s birth certificate is what makes some infer there are darker motives with his “concerns.” Ike has not wasted years of his life complaining about the lack of records from the current president, George W. Bush, or any another president (or even any other candidate for the presidency). Ike has spent countless hours twisting words and outright lying with respect to Obama, but gives only the most perfunctory of lip service with regard to anyone else’s records. The difference is notable, and Ike is being judged for that difference.

  20. Ike says:

    RC: Why should we take you seriously when you are too ignorant to know the name of one of two major political parties?

    Obviously this is in regards to your Democrat Party. I explained it 4 years ago here on your blog while schooling you & Pogue on some of the tyrannical history of your Party. At that time Pogue asked the question. I replied with I don’t add the ‘ic’ because I see nothing democratic about it.

    <br />RC: No anti-Birther site has ever called President Obama any of the names you mentioned other than to either quote Birthers directly or infer Birthers feelings about him. Your word games bore me.
    
    Projecting that to the birthers as your reason won't fly. You know it's a degrading remark, and obots over the years have on regular basis attached it to Obama.
    

    RC: You had plenty of opportunities to demand that Trump release his tax returns at sites like Birther Reports.

    Another lame statement from RC. I’ve never got involved over anyone’s tax records, that includes Obama. Here’s your chance at national celebrity status. Mount a campaign to get his tax records released. Here’s an idea for a slogan: ‘Hey white boy, release your tax records!’
    ~~~~~~

    RC: You only seem to be obsessed with one President.

    I think that’s a fair statement from you. Had some problems with Clinton & Bush43 but neither ever began to come close to the disdain I have for Obama. Maybe you’re experiencing that same feeling & attitude towards Trump.

    Speaking of ‘obsessed’. That’s what I’ve experienced from obots when I’ve been on their sites. A hypnotic/trance-like messiah worship by them for Obama. ‘For he is Obama and can do no wrong’ is how they come across. It’s comparable to how Abercrombie presented himself when interviewed, and how Evans said he became almost militant. Did you get hit with that light & have an epiphany?

    Obama campaigning in 2008: “A light will shine down from somewhere. It will light upon you. You will experience an epiphany and you will say to yourself, ‘I have to vote for Barack’”

    • tbfreeman says:

      “how Evans said he became almost militant.”

      Unsurprising that Ike continues to rely on a known liar like Evans; anything to support his Obama obsession.

      “A hypnotic/trance-like messiah worship by them for Obama.”

      Another ridiculous lie from Ike: not once in this conversation that nothing has been said about Obama’s performance.

      Yet birthers can’t say one bad thing about Russian poodle that occupies the White House. (This is your cue, Ike.)

    • Ike said

      Obviously this is in regards to your Democrat Party. I explained it 4 years ago here on your blog while schooling you & Pogue on some of the tyrannical history of your Party. At that time Pogue asked the question. I replied with I don’t add the ‘ic’ because I see nothing democratic about it.

      OK you are banned until admit the proper name is the Democratic party and refer to it as such. You can go post your lying bullshit at some appropriate place like Birther Reports. Oh wait…

      My blog. My rules. So long traitor.

      • tbfreeman says:

        The funny part is that Ike (and his ilk) think people like RC and the commenters here are obsessed with Obama and his birth certificate. The reality is RC and others like him are amused by the birthers themselves — the people whose are so obsessed with Obama that they made up a series of lies about him, including all the lies about his perfectly normal and legal birth certificate. They have been lying about Obama for over 10 years now: since before his presidency, all throughout it, and now for 18 months since he left office.

    • You schooled no one any time you were here. I distinctly remember you running off with your tail between your legs every time your trolling was defeated. It’s what all birthers do. Talk big and when they’re thoroughly debunked they run. They then come back and repeat the same claims they did last time around as if everyone would forget.

      I belong to no political party. So should we refer to the Republican Party as the Pubic party since the names of the actual parties don’t matter?

      Gee I wonder what’s so different about Obama that you only care about him… hmmm

      No one here has “trance like messiah worship for Obama”. The problem is you think people should just accept your lies as if the truth doesn’t matter.

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