The Birthers have maintained that Hawaii resident Johanna Ah’Nee’s long form birth certificate is the gold standard for genuine Hawaii birth certificates since WND published a highly redacted copy of her certificate in an article titled How does Obama’s document stack up against genuine BC?. Unfortunately for the Birthers the Ah’Nee long form has debunked several Birther claims and stands as solid evidence that the President’s LFBC that was released in April 2011 is the real thing.
Well the Ah’Nee certificate has come through once again. It has now been used to demonstrate that a Xerox WorkCentre produces the same scanning artifacts that the Birther “experts” used to base their claims that the Obama LFBC was a “computer generated forgery”.
Last week I had occasion to print a color copy of the Ah’Nee long form certificate and scan it to PDF on a Xerox WorkCentre model 7535. The Birthers will not be happy with the results. Many of the same “anomalies” appeared in the PDF scan of the Ah’Nee birth certificate including
- Multiple layers (six total)
- One JPG layer that included the background green security pattern and the form lines
- A monochrome layer with most of the text
- 4 other layers with bits of “junk”
- Text touching the form lines were included with the JPG layer
- White halos around text
- White holes in the background layer where text was lifted
Yes, all of the above features have been cited as proof of forgery by a trove of Birther “experts”. Yet, I have replicated every one of them using a low quality image of Johanna Ah”Nee’s birth certificate.
Will these self proclaimed experts dare repeat the same tests I have done? So far the silence is deafening. They know they have been revealed as charlatans. They ignore solid proof and cling to their biased analyses that have been debunked by evidence. They pretend “it is of no concern”.
I was not surprised by the results. I have scanned enough documents on Xerox WorkCentre’s to understand how the MRC compression algorithm works. It isn’t rocket science. I credit NBC and others for leading the way to find the facts. The mystery has been solved.
Here are the two main layers from the scan of the AH’Nee certificate.
JPG Background Layer (Note the white holes.)
Text Layer
Update 2/18:
I mentioned that halos are present in the image of the Ah’Nee birth certificate when scanned on a Xerox WorkCentre. He is a portion of the PDF that clearly shows the halos around the word “AH”NEE” and the other words that were lifted into the text layer during the compression process.
Update 12/21/2021: I was reviewing this article after I saw a new Politifact article had been published on the Obama LFBC. I noticed that I neglected to mention the source of the unredacted version of the Ah’Nee birth certificate was Orly Taitz blog post. I am sure she got the copy from Miki Booth.
RC Radio Blog 
What a doofus !!! The Ah’nee PDF image was already layered and it wasn’t even created on a Xerox.
To be exact, it had three layers.
So you printed it out to get one layer and then Xerox scanned the print to get six layers plus “junk”.
By any chance were any of the junk objects identical to objects in the WH LFCOLB ?
Even you Obots would have to admit that the Obama certified copies should have been produced by the same process as the Ah’nee certified copies. So how come a scanned (layered) copy of the Ah’nee certified copy is of higher quality than the purportedly Xerox scanned (layered) copy of the Obama certified copy?
That was John’s observation which you didn’t address at all.
And you are the one still bragging about the quality of the Xerox scans.
That has no relevance at all other than to show that other copier/scanners create PDF’s with layers. I thought Birthers claimed that never happened?
No, there were a total of six layers. I showed the two layers that had any real content. Another layer had a fragment of a character and 3 layers had very little content.
The Ah’Nee certificate is not of higher quality. If you are saying more layers equates to lower quality that is just silly. You keep revealing that you have no clue.
John makes no sense. He believes in the magic birth certificate. No one takes him seriously.
I am not saying Xerox is any better or worse than HP, Ricoh, Toshiba, or any other major office equipment vendor. Xerox does produce a very compact PDF file for a given dpi setting. I recently scanned a set of 28 – 11″x17″ drawings on a Xerox Workcentre to a multi-page PDF file. At 300 dpi the Xerox file was around 3 MB. The same set of drawings scanned at the same setting on my Brother scanner produced a 25 MB file. When you frequently work with these size scanned document sets and have to email and store them that makes for a huge difference. The quality of the two images was indistinguishable.
“I recently scanned a set of 28 – 11″x17″ drawings on a Xerox Workcentre to a multi-page PDF file.”
Were those part of your work for the University of Connecticut or for DARPA?
Both! 😉
Well I’m saying that the Xerox is worse — and even at a larger file size. The file size of the Obama LFCOLB PDF is 376 KB. The file size of the Ah’nee 2-sided LFCOLB is only 121 KB. The image quality of the Ah’nee copy is superior to the Obama LFCOLB image. The pixel resolutions are the same for each.
from the research I have seen, and I have delved quite deeply into this, including attending the press conferences by both Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his Posse Captain, Mike Zullo, Jahannah Ah’nee produced the first (original) copy of her birth certificate to Jerome Corsi. Then, when things started getting heated, she met with a few other people and produced fake copies of her own birth certificate to them. So, yes, there are fake Ah’nee birth certificates too. However, you continue to mention the investigation by Arpaio and Zullo, but fail to mention that this investigation into “Obama’s” bc involved the verification of two of the world’s foremost forensic document researchers, totally separate and unaware of the other’s work. Regardless of what the Ah’nee certificate shows, there is so much other evidence, including the fact that Ah’nee was only one of the contributing certificates.
When your personal research outweighs the work done by the group of PhD’s in Italy’s Forlab, forensic pathology training for all of Europe, i’ll hear you out again. Meanwhile, it seems that there is a lot of explaining to be done regarding not just Obama’s birth certificate, but his social security number (from Connecticut, where he never lived), his selective service card (fake stamp), his college records, his passport, his own words, describing his experience being raised and educated in a muslim country (not that of a 4 year old’s experience) and so much more!!
Think about it! What you have presented is only one of the many facets of the counterfeit scam we have endured under this president. Does he even know who he is?
Johanna Ah’Nee had a real copy of her birth certificate and then produced fake copies? What a moron you are. You folks have lied so much you have to come up with convoluted explanations like that to cover previous lies. That is exactly what is happening to Mike Zullo right now.
We don’t know what the lab in Italy concluded because Zullo will not release it.
We have explained ad naseum that Connecticut does not issue social security numbers. Your rant about the other records is meaningless Birther bullshit.
lol Zullo is now a captain? So commander and LT. are no longer his rank? He’s actually neither. Wait what? It involved some of the world’s most foremost forensic document researchers? Do you even buy your own BS? How did they magically suddenly become such world renowned experts? Instead of the bottom of the barrel that Zullo admitted to scraping. Are you saying that the 212 other forensic document examiners that Zullo called before Reed Hayes weren’t actual experts and not world renowned and he only went with the “best” for last? Zullo has admitted that he was turned down by 212 experts before settling on Graphologist Reed Hayes. Hayes isn’t a forensic researcher he’s a graphologist which is a fringe field of study. He admitted he only looked at whatever Zullo gave him. His report has never been released. The italian company specializes in child porn cases. We don’t know specifically which “forensic researcher” did anything from that firm.
As for the new claims, Zullo admitted they came directly from his paid shill Mark Gillar who is not an expert in anything. Do we know that any actual PHD from that “lab” even looked at it? Thus far no birther expert has ever examined the birth certificate and thus any claim they make should be taken with a grain of salt.
Well, this is very bad news: since her BC also produces layers, it must be forged too, so all the debunking that was done using it has been invalidated.
Or maybe it proves she’s made of wood…
(btw, if you’re having trouble getting access to a 7655, the UPS store in town has one. If it could help, I can check next time I’m in town to see whether they allow it to be used for scanning to email: it might not be networked)
Well, I am slowly becoming impressed. The Obots decided to scan Ah’Nee’s Birth Certificate. Unfortunately though, the process is rather INCOMPLETE. Will you show the file scanned result? How come you didn’t scan using safety paper. Where is the white halo text? Where can lift the date and signature stamp? So it has layers. It has been determine that just because a PDF has layers doesn’t mean its a straight out forgery. The CCP has indicated that. The CCP has said that it’s number of layers and the substance of each layer on Obama’s birth certificate that concerns them (Background on seperate layer, Dunhma signature a composite layer, date and signature stamps independent layers, etc.) Good try RC, but you need to go farther, a lot farther.
John
I didn’t use safety paper because the Ah’Nee certificate already had the safety background, albeit a poor image of it. The seal and date stamp were on the back and I saw no reason to scan those alone. I added an image of the halos at the end of the article. I made my points. They stand unrefuted.
It is time you, Hermie, and the CCP get off your butts and start replicating my experiments on the Xerox equipment and quit whining on the sidelines.
The Ah’nee LFCOLB is 2-sided. The registrar’s date and signature stamps are on the back side.
You will never get the full story out of RC. He’s a cherry picker like NBC.
I know it was two sided and I know that the seal and signature stamp are on the second page. I saw no reason to scan that page. The scan of the front proves that a Xerox WorkCentre using MRC compression will separate another Hawaiian birth certificate the same way that the Obama LFBC was separated. It left white holes and generated halos.
Meanwhile the CCP fake analyses lie in shambles.
Hermitian says: “You will never get the full story out of RC. He’s a cherry picker like NBC.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!! There went another irony meter. What do you call Zullo who lies about evidence, hides evidence, and makes claims about congressmen on board that have been proven to be false…and wants people to send him money so he can lie to them!!! I think a scam artist is the definition you’re looking for. So what are you Hermie, an accessory to the scamming of retirees?
Yes, I caught the irony in Hermie’s statement. He has flat out accused NBC and me of lying yet he is the person who filed a demonstrably false daffydavit in a federal case. I have just about run out of patience with him.
Hermie
If you would have read my comment posted this morning in reply to John instead of going into the accusatory mode you would have seen I explained to JY exactly why I didn’t scan the reverse side of the Ah’Nee image.
Hermie
You get a tip of the RC Radio cap for pointing out that the Ah’Nee PDF posted at Orly Taitz blog has layers! As a matter of fact it is parsed in the same way the Obama LFBC PDF is separated. The Ah’Nee certificate alone blows the CCP analysis of Papit and Zebest out of the water. I will write a full article on this when I get time.
Whenever you write the article you should take the time to address some of the specific information from this article: http://www.mcso.org/MultiMedia/PressRelease/MARAZEBESTREPORT.pdf
Many of the people still being believing this conspiracy rely heavily on the information contained therein. It would be nice to see it dismantled piece by piece. Not sure if it will matter much because those still clinging to this have almost cultish belief, but if even one person is lead to the truth it was probably worth the time.
I just read Zebest’s report again and the tests I have run with paper documents scanned on a Xerox WorkCentre destroy the claims she made about the lack of noise and chromatic aberration. She clearly had no understanding of how the JBIG2 compression algorithm works. Unfortunately, I cannot copy text out of the report to refute so that will make it more time consuming. Some of her claims are just plainly stupid and have been refuted by others. One example is the “TXE” in the signature stamp. Doc C and others show that it is a result of over inking and lack of resolution. The same “TXE” was seen on another birth certificate image that was recently released.
She claims the halos and white holes in the background layer are evidence of forgery. I have shown how they are created by the Xerox WorkCentre and visible on any document with black text on a color background.
Finally she claimed that the existence of layers at all is evidence of forgery. Even Hermitian would agree that one is wrong. Zebest jumps to many conclusions from a point of ignorance. Because she does not understand how modern compression algorithms in large multifunction office machines work she assumes that anomalies she cannot explain are evidence of forgery. She jumped to her conclusions without doing adequate research on the large office multifunction machines that are in place in a large operation like the White House. This was typical for all of the Birther so-called experts. (Hermitian included). Their confirmation bias prevented them from doing real research.
Zebest is stuck in the time when scanning was done by one piece of equipment and compression was done in software. Because she doesn’t understand it doesn’t mean something isn’t possible.
Hermie is now in complete denial mode and will remain in moderation until he answers my question. How does he explain that the Canon machine that produced the PDF created the green background behind the black text layer?
I gave Hermie a simple challenge. He has the same PDF of the Ah’Nee certificate that Orly Taitz posted. It was scanned on a Canon Image Runner Advanced 8105. It has 3 layers. The file size is 120 KB. It has two 8.5 x 5.5 pages. When the first page is opened in Illustrator it has three layers. One layers has the green security background and most of the form. A second layer has most of the text. The third layer has a some of the pencil marks that were a little lighter in color. When the text layer is turned off the green security background appears where the text was. Where did the green background that was behind the letters come from?
Here is the same portion of the certificate with the layer on and the layer off:
Hermie refuses to acknowledge that he has the same PDF. I know he does because he is the one who first mentioned it was produced on a Canon. So Hermie, just open it in Illustrator and tell us why it does that. Don’t try to change the subject because I won’t let you ramble on and change the subject.
By the way it also has some letters that have no “chromatic aberration” (edge fuzziness) just like the Obama LFBC PDF. Mara Zebest said that was impossible with a scanner and a paper document.
As I have said before, the Ah’Nee birth certificate is the gift that keeps on giving. 😉
That’s the other side to the birthers’ methodology (or rather lack thereof). If a self-appointed birther “expert” says the LFBC is forged because of X, Y and Z and someone such as yourself RC finds a document such as the Ah’Nee birth certificate that has features X, Y and Z, a birther will inevitably go “oh yeah, what about Q?” Such comments betray the simple fact that the birthers have already decided that the LFBC (or whatever) is forged and are looking for a rationalization (and I use that word charitably) that this is so. That the methodology has been shown to be (at the very least) flawed is completely ignored. There certainly is no reexamination of the “theory” that the pdf in question is forged.
Correct again, Hektor.
I am not approving Hermitian’s latest comments. He will not address my questions. He has also accused people I consider friends of forgery with his pile of nonsense filed in federal court.
That doesn’t surprise me that Hermitian is ducking such inconvenient questions. I am not surprised that he has accused friends of yours of forgery. Us “obots” have to be guilty of something because we can refute the birther nonsense.
One of the things that have always stood out to me ever since I first read the words “and besides, obummer was born in Kenya” (or something to that effect) is that the birthers have utterly failed for over five years to do is come up with any sort of concrete plan that involves achievable goals and avoids magical thinking. It’s always been “all we have to do is find one ‘honest’ judge and then somehow frogmarching.” AFAIK, they have never tried to look at it in a systematic way. Of course if they did, they would find the burden on them is very high.
They are obsessed with artifacts in optimized PDFs, not realizing that even if that artifact could show (for lack of a better term) tampering or forgery of a paper document, Hawaii has confirmed that the key information in the PDF, that the President was born in Hawaii in 1961, is true. Proving that the state of Hawaii is either lying or somehow misinformed about an event that happened over fifty years ago is not something mere conjecture or baseless speculation can overturn.
But it goes further than that. In their pursuit of ANY. DAY. NOW. and the magic reset button, birthers have failed to examine the question of how an ineligible candidate would be removed from the Presidency. They flail about, fantasizing that there exists mechanisms for the courts or congress (outside of impeachment or raising an objection during the counting of the electoral votes) or even a military coup in order to fulfill their dreams of undoing of two elections. They certainly don’t want the fact that in the extremely improbably event that the President was not a NBC and was found out after being sworn into office, then likely the President would resign rather than face an almost certain impeachment and the Vice President would assume office. Sarah Palin (or whatever other fantasy they hold) would not automatically become President. All the laws that President Obama signed would not be undone.
That’s the thing though. They’ve never actually wanted to look at their supposed problem as a problem to be fixed (and thus how would you go about doing it).
I of course am talking about the attorneys for the Democratic party in Mississippi. I have had both of them on my show several times. I know them both to be honorable people and the last thing they would do is present a forgery to the court. The idea is preposterous. Hermitian’s affidavit is just stupid.
One of the things I find most disgusting about Birthers is the way they throw around accusations of forgery and corruption at a fine President and those who support him and against fine public servants like Alvin Onaka the late Loretta Fuddy.
Is that necessarily any more disgusting than us referring to Corporal Zullo, et al, as “con men”?
The majority of people are not equipped to do an informed evaluation of the evidence, so many have been suckered into believing that there really is some sort of fraud going on.
Yes, there’s a lot of rationalizing of racism and partisan bias in the mix, but, if you believed you had evidence of a serious unpunished crime, you’d probably be throwing around accusations, too. I know I have (although I’ve been a lot more careful about making sure I’m right before doing so).
But we shouldn’t repeat the birther mistake of over-broad generalizations.
No, in Zullo’s case we know he presented doctored evidence in his quest to slime President Obama and the officials in Hawaii. Zullo is demonstrably running a con. I know personally that he lied about my phone call with him.
Hermitian has accused Scott Tepper and Sam Begley of presenting a forged document (well actually a second forgery of an already forged document) in a brief they filed in federal court. There is no way a rational person could actually believe that unless they were so consumed by hatred that they would believe the absurd.
I suppose I just cannot put myself in Hermie’s shoes and think anyone could believe something as stupid as the stuff he claimed in his daffydavit.
Ran
You may think I am being a bit tough on Hermitian but let’s put this into perspective. He took it on his own initiative to stick his nose into a case in Mississippi that really has nothing to do with where President Obama was born or the validity of his birth certificate. The case is about whether the “Democrat” party and the Mississippi SoS have an obligation make candidates prove they are natural born citizens.
Orly tried to turn this into a RICO case but she is not even close and never will get that done.
Orly included a poorly reproduced copy of the LFBC in one of her pleadings and he usual crap load of claims from the trove of Birther unqualified amateurs claiming it was forged. The attorneys representing the Mississippi Democratic Party Executive Council, Mssrs. Begley and Tepper, took the opportunity to reply with a better copy of the LFBC that they made simply by scanning a printed copy of the LFBC and also included a verification letter from the Hawaii DoH. Taitz had opened the door for Begley and Tepper by including the forgery claims. This gave the Defendants a valid reason to request the verification under Hawaii statutes.
Now along comes Henry Blake, professor in engineering mechanics from Tennessee who fashions himself an expert in computers because he once used one. He makes the preposterous claim that instead of just printing and scanning a copy of a perfectly good image of the LFBC posted at the White House web site they (or someone under their direction) manufactured a completely new PDF document to file in the Mississippi case. Of course he had no explanation why someone would do that other than they goofed up on the first one so this is a second try.
Henry came over to NBC’s blog when NBC began running a series of articles on the Xerox WorkCentre as being the source of the LFBC PDF. Eventually, Hermie got challenged on his affidavit and had to defend it. NBC and a commenter named W. Kevin Vicklund began looking at the PDF filed in the Mississippi case and figured not only was it from a scanner/copier they even figured out it was a Fujitsu machine. NBC wrote a good summary of the findings MS – Orly v Democrat – Part 8 Recap.
Hermie of course never admits he is wrong. There is a comical exchange in an article at NBC’s blog where WKV points out that Hermie misspelled Fujitsu as “Fugitsu”. Rather than just admit he didn’t know how to spell Fujitsu he lied and claimed he was using the Japanese spelling. (The word is derived from Mt. Fuji.)
Henry now conveniently forgets that his affidavit was completely eviscerated by NBC and Vicklund. He is a troll who uses the strawman argument and changes the subject constantly. He dodges direct simple questions and when backed into a corner accuses his opponent in debate of lying and dishonesty. He was banned from OCT for this type of behavior.
This is why I have little patience with Hermitian.
RC, forgive me for not connecting Hematian to the Henry Blake daffydavit. I can see why you have little patience with him or for the birthers’ need to tar so many people with the brush of treason/conspiracy just because they want to continue their fantasies.
I apologize for putting you to the trouble of that long rebuttal, but I thank you for bringing out some very interesting history IU hadn’t read before.
I mistook your comment about “Birthers” for an overly-broad generalization, not a comment about a particular subgroup, and that pushed my hot button about people who screw up opportunities for productive discussions by starting with a “You’re just a [negative stereotype]” salvo when the other person is actually well-intentioned, but misinformed.
Even the small subset of your interactions with Hermie that I’ve seen have shown your extraordinary patience with someone not debating in good faith. I’m sorry that what was intended to be be a gentle reminder about the kind of lapse we all have from time to time in the heat of battle came across as a specific criticism that certainly would have been unwarranted.
Sorry, I had only found this specific article when I posted that comment. I have now discovered the rest. Very good work.
No problem at all! Things are very informal around here. 😉
There is an obvious answer to my question that Hermitian is dodging about how the green background “magically” appeared behind the text in the Ah”Nee PDF. When the programmers wrote the code for the JBIG2 compression in the code for Canon and Xerox they had to make a decision what to replace the areas in the JPG layer under the letters when the characters were lifted into a separate monochrome layer. The two obvious choices are to replace it with the color of the surrounding areas or replace it with a white or grey background which has the appearance of holes where the text was lifted. It appears that Canon chose the former and Xerox chose the later. There is nothing remarkable or nefarious about either.
it’s not so easy
gsgs
Please elaborate. If by “not so easy” you mean that figuring out the exact algorithm at work in these machines then I agree. You would need the source code (or talk to the programmer) or run hundreds of tests with different documents constructed to see what happens with text on different shades of colors in the background.
However, all that is unimportant detail unless you are just curious. The point is that we know how MRC compression separates a document into an 8 bit background layer and multiple monochrome one bit masks. We know JBIG2 tries to find close matching characters and makes exact copies of them to save space. We have seen how this is at work in the Obama LFBC and even the Ah’Nee BC scanned on a Canon. Whatever mystery there was about the LFBC PDF has been solved.
you keep saying that … but I know there is gonna be a segment of people
for which not matter what we put out this issue is not put to rest
Yes, there is. And a Youtube search for “moon landing hoax” returns “About 243,000 results”.
An old Ashleigh Brilliant postcard said, “I have given up the search for truth, and am now looking for a really good fantasy”, and there are millions of Americans who live by that motto.
If Jesus Christ came down, riding on a cloud, and said “Barack Hussein Obama is one of my beloved children. Hear him”, there’d still be at least half a million people claiming that the Illuminati paid George Lucas to fake it, and doing frame-by-frame analysis of the news video to “prove” it.
Ain’t it the truth.
Father Time at Birther Report asks:
Since BR will never let a comment through from me I will answer here.
The mystery has been solved, although as gsgs points out, there will be people who will disregard reason and logic in favor of fear, hatred or plain ignorance. That’s too bad but hardly a relevant issue.
The scan of Ahnee’s birth certificate by RC shows once again that JY and Hermitian as well as the Cold case Posse ‘crowd’ have nothing to rebut.
Today is March, and I predict that there will be nothing of real relevance happening this month.
NBC says: “Today is March, and I predict that there will be nothing of real relevance happening this month.”
March Madness! The basketball kind, birther madness is year-round! 😀
With today’s presentation, it is clear that either the Ah’Nee certificate or the Obama certificate is fake; they cannot both be legitimate. BUT ARPAIO’S POSSE HAS DONE NOTHING TO VERIFY THE AH’NEE CERTIFICATE!!! They just take her word that she has had it locked up since 1995? And Corsi happens to get a hold of it within 10 days of Obama’s certificate pdf being posted after asking for a certificate? And it just happens to be the exact one out of who knows how many that was used to make Obama’s birth certificate? It’s far more likely that Ah’Nee’s was quickly made from Obama’s after Obama’s was posted. Yes, investigators have the physical Ah’Nee copy and not a physical copy of Obama’s, but in this video they even explain how easy it is to forge a physical Hawaiian certificate because the paper for one is readily available on ebay!
There is no evidence that either the Obama or Ah’Nee certificate was forged. It’s just nonsense to claim otherwise.
This is what I was thinking when I watched this video today. How do we know this lady’s BC hasn’t had Obama’s hand stamps and the like transferred onto it to make it look like the reverse was true when compared the other way? Just like a simple street con.
Not that it matters but the provenance of the Obama LFBC is impeccable when compared with the Ah’Nee birth certificate. In Obama’s case the Hawaii DoH issued a letter describing how, when, and to whom it was issued. They have also issued three letters verifying the correctness of the information on the certificate. In the case of the Ah’Nee certificate all we have are anecdotal evidence from Obama haters like Miki Booth, Jerome Corsi and Mike Zullo.
As I stated before both certificates appear to be genuine but if I had to bet my life on one of them being genuine and unaltered it would be Obama’s without question.
clearly you have a cognitive bias
Clearly you presented no evidence for that claim.
It’s not clear at all that either is fake. Arpaio is only doing this now because he (finally) is getting kicked out of office after losing the recent election (I’m from Arizona, so happier than most Americans about this).
There were so many mistakes in the supposed “analysis” presented in the press conference a couple of days ago. I happened across it today and spent a bit of time examining their claims. Their work is *at best* extremely sloppy, and at worst intentionally deceptive and designed to be incendiary and to appeal to the lowest common denominator, the type of person that can’t be bothered to do the least bit of checking of their claims.
I say that because if people did, they would immediately see issues with the MCSO “analysis”. For instance, one of their claims is that the X, box, and part of the line above in 6d in the Ah’Nee BC were copied into two separate places in the Obama BC, 6d and 7e (they said 6e when 7e was meant, as it’s one of the highlighted areas which is one of the supposed “points of forgery” and it is similar to 6d, more evidence of sloppy work and sloppy thinking). But even in the poor quality YouTube video of the press conference, you can see that 6d and 7e in the Obama BC are not identical, and looking at the white house copy it’s 100% clear that they are not identical. If they were transplanted from a single source they would, of course, be perfectly identical.
Another claim made was that five areas were pulled simultaneously as a group from the Ah’Nee BC into the Obama BC, but one of them is clearly not the same (compare Oahu in 7b on each, with special attention paid to the “O”). It’s like people don’t understand typewriters and fixed spacing and line advances or something. It’s not remotely strange to find similarities such as those found when examining typewritten documents from the same typewriter. There’s a reasonable likelihood that if they actually took the reasonable step of zooming in on some of the areas in question that they could prove both that the same typewriter was used and that the keystroke in question was not identical (given the small amount of chaos inherent in mechanical contraptions like typewriters, the key might strike the ribbon and imprint the paper slightly differently, but certain features of the keys may be evident as well in distinguishing them from other similar typewriters… and ink saturation in the ribbon was likely at play here as well). The fact that they never mentioned taking this most obvious step which is really the first thing to be done in “forensic document examination”, but rather spent all of their time elucidating how poorly they understand technology, is quite telling.
You’re right that it’s strange that Corsi supposedly got hold of the Ah’Nee BC 10 days after Obama’s was released, but even supposing it’s true, their claims are laughable regardless. Given how shoddy their other claims have been shown to be, I’d be quite comfortable betting anyone out there a significant amount of money that their “angle” hypothesis is also a sham – I’ll bet that if you calculate the angles between the two sets of date stamps they can be shown to be slightly different. So, why are they similar in the first place? Well, that’s easy. Test this out (or just think about it) – go buy a date stamp, then print a piece of paper with rows of boxes (doublespaced so you don’t accidentally overlap them) on the left and right sides of the paper. Now, take your date stamp, ink it, stamp the left side, and rotate your arm a bit to stamp the right side (or hit the right side first – doesn’t matter). Imagine that this is part of your job, and you do this 10 or 20 times every day, and it’s one of those mundane things that you just want to get over this as quickly as possible. You’ll probably find that there’s something like a 5 degree difference, on average, in the angle of the two stamps. Perhaps it varies between people based on whether they primarily use their shoulder (lower rotation), elbow, or wrist (higher rotation) to accomplish the rotation to the other box. Perhaps there’s even a genetic component involved in the amount of rotation that comes from each possible source (yes, that’s taking this to ridiculous lengths, which is the point).
Where I mentioned Oahu in 7b, I meant 6b.
Dave you are 100% correct. I had assumed they had taken Obama’s info and reversed engineered it into the Ah Nee document then made it out to look like the opposite was true but they didn’t even do that! I took the ah nee bc and saved it onto one iPad Air 2 into iBooks as a PDF then took Obama’s bc directly from the White House website and saved it onto iBooks as a PDF on a second iPad Air 2.
This allowed me to zoom in as close as I wanted and place the ipads side by side. In 6b the “O” in Oahu is vastly different as you said. Obama’s is sitting higher than in the Ah Nee document.
As for the hand date stamps along the bottom. Both the date stamps in section 20 and section 22 are at different angles. Section 20 is pretty close but section 22 is a lot steeper angle on Obama’s BC as well as the “A” in august being stamped directly over the “D” and “a” in “date” above it.
I see this as a desperate last attempt by Zullo and Gillar to come up with something before Arapio is out of office. It is actually quite comical. Their previous so called evidence on layers and race codes got destroyed by the Xerox findings and the release of the real race codes by Doc C and others.
So after five years this pathetic video by Gillar is all they have.
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Obama’s White House birth certificate imported he registrar’s signature and date stamps from linked external objects. This is confirmed by turning on “Links” in the “Window” menu in Adobe Illustrator. Not only was the registrar date stamp imported from an external link, it was scaled 24% and then rotated -90 degrees to be placed in the document. The imported registrar’s stamp also contained a happy face drawn into Alvin’s signature and had a misspelled “TXE” in Onaka’s official stamp. How is any scanner going to duplicate importing a linked external file with a fraudulent registrar’s stamp with a happy face and a misspelled “TXE”?
http://www.wnd.com/2011/07/324153/
Maybe you can explain then why exactly the same thing happened when I printed a copy of the LFBC and scanned it to an emailed PDF file attachment on a Xerox WorkCentre?
Oh. the “TXE” isn’t a misspelling. It is an optical illusion caused by light inking on the stamp. It has been explained dozens of times. Look at the higher resolution AP J. Scott Applewhite photo to see what is going on.
[RC: Jennifer’s racist comment was deleted. Please read the rules for commenting. ]
This is fake news. No criticism of Obama is allowed in the MSM until 10 years after he is gone from office, it’s a unwritten rule. First black President rules.
Pepe, what an idiotic comment. Have you watched Fox News for a minute over the last 8 years?
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Just show us the original microfiche. If his BC was captured in sequence with the same microfiche as Ah’nee and the rest of the Hawaiian’s born in that month/ year, then we can all call it a day and sing Kum Ba Yah.
Ask yourself a few simple questions
1. Why wait 4 years, until his re-election to produce what was required of John McCain during the first Obama election?
2. Why not submit the original microfiche?
You see, all BCs were scanned into microfiche in the US during the late 60s and early 70s. Even though those were later digitized into jpgs or pdfs in the 90s and 2000s, the fact is that every county in the US used microfiche tech, with photographic images of the original documents, captured onto micro film reels (microfiche), one document after another, sequentially by document number.
Those original microfiche reels are kept in an archive vault somewhere in safe and temperature controlled buildings. It would take a simple signature of the governor of Hawaii to authorize an archival team to go in with investigators and simply pull that reel for an hour, run the machine to review it and capture the original document in it’s context. It will have originally been captured in numbered sequence. You cannot convince me that it wasn’t. Unless this is a forgery. Prove it’s not a forgery by going to the original source. Simple as that. I’m going to say that we will find that either there is another name on that number in that document reel or that reel is missing and has been destroyed.
Simply put: if Obama could produce the original, he would have. He didn’t, therefore he can’t. End of story.
McCain wasn’t required to produce anything. He allowed a small group of reporters to view a copy of his birth certificate but did not provide copies. Candidate Obama published a copy of his birth certificate in June 2008. No candidate in history had ever done that. He was never required to produce anything. All your ramblings about microfilm are nonsense.
Congress didn’t do to Obama what they had done to McCain only a couple months prior…investigate whether or not he was eligible to serve as President after his status as a “natural born citizen” had become a public issue.
The birth certificate released by nominee Obama in 2008 has a 2007 date-stamp on the back, the year before Obama’s own people say his 2008 campaign requested it. Additionally, the first few images of it do not have horizontal lines indicating it had been folded in thirds so as to fit in a standard-size envelope, while later photos of it (allegedly at Obama’s 2008 campaign headquarters) show it had been folded in thirds so as to fit in a standard-size envelope. Both cannot be valid.
No image or photo of either the short-form or long-form shows a legible embossed seal of the Hawaii Department of Health. Given the seriousness of this issue, common sense says the HDOH would have INSURED said seal was perfectly legible on the certified copies it supplied to Obama. Spare me the BS about scanners not being able to “see” such a seal — if my $150.00 Epson personal/home-office multi-function machine could “see” and print a perfectly legible image of the embossed seal of the “New Hampshire Department of Health” on my LAMINATED credit card sized New Hampshire “Record of Birth” certainly a $?,???.?? Xerox business office multi-function machine could.
To summarily dismiss the microfiche issue as nonsense summarily renders you intellectually dishonest.
James Carter – what you say is nonsense. What New Hampshire does is meaningless.
There was no “investigation” of McCain. This is an outright lie.
Virtually every Hawaiian birth certificate available on the internet has a seal that is almost impossible to make out. That does not mean you could not make it out if you held the actual certified copy in your hand. It may just be that Hawaii prefers that their seal can’t be copied easily.
Here is a photo of one – can you make out the seal?
It is also not true that you can not see the fold lines on the scanned image of the COLB. Here is the scanned image sent to Factcheck.org by the Obama campaign.
There is a clear fold line crossing the middle of the seal of Hawaii and runs across the entire page. You have to zoom in. It is in exactly the same spot as it appears in the other photos. The second fold line is not as visible but is just above the words “Father’s Name”. Again this is the exact same location as seen in the photos.
Finally, the fact that Dan Pfieffer (while speaking in April, 2011) confused June, 2008 (when the certificate was first posted to the internet) and June, 2007 (when the certificate was first ordered from Hawaii) is hardly proof of anything.
Remember in April, Trump said his father was born in Germany.
McCain was investigated. That’s how it was found he was qualified.
During the period McCain was born in Panama, Panama didn’t have a Jus Soli claims to those born there.
Notice what it says at the bottom of this substitute birth document you’re showing: “This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of a birth in any court proceeding.”
Since it has never been use in a court as evidence the substitute birth document is worthless.
There never was an investigation of McCain by Congress. This is a birther lie.
Senator McCaskill authored a simple resolution (with five co-sponsors) and it was approved by a voice vote.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/sres511
If there was such an investigation why can’t anyone provide a link to it?
So when someone needs a US passport, they first have to get a court to recognize their birth certificate.
I wish I had a buck for every time one of the standard Birther lies was repeated. A commenter at the Post & Email just this week repeated the lie that Barack and Michele Obama gave up their law licenses in Illinois because they were about to be sanctioned.
What’s next, “Obama sealed all his records!”?
I didn’t say Congress investigated McCain. He was investigated in 2000 when he announced his candidacy.
Here’s why Johnny McshAmnasty was a natural-born citizen of the United States:
Article 6 of Pamana’s Constitution was changed on Oct 19th, 1928. Panama no longer had a Jus Soli claim to children of foreigners born there.
https://books.google.com/books?id=jR9PAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=change+to+the+panamanian+constitution+Oct+19th+1928&source=bl&ots=-hO4xbslC3&sig=ACfU3U0-2VHGjqig7WD3uPT8s3DuYMfk4g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiC1r7mnZDmAhVGA6wKHaQNAXYQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=change%20to%20the%20panamanian%20constitution%20Oct%2019th%201928&f=false
Hughes: “So when someone needs a US passport, they first have to get a court to recognize their birth certificate.”
No dummy, only those that have been contested.
Ike wrote:
WTF was that nonsense supposed to mean?
It means that starting with attorney Berg’s case in the Pennsylvania court in 2008 to the release of the substitute long form birth document in Apr. 2011 there were hundreds of court cases, and the substitute short form that claims at the bottom it was good as evidence for a birth in any court proceeding was never used by Obama. During that period, which was more than 2 1/2 years, Obots were claiming that was their absolute undeniable proof & if you didn’t believe it you were a raciissstttt, but your Dear Leader wouldn’t use that proof in any of the court cases. I wonder why?
Investigated? Passing a non-binding resolution without any debate isn’t an investigation. McCain’s actual birth certificate isn’t out there. I don’t think you understand what prima facie actually means.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I had never noticed the faint creases visible in the Fact Check photo.
I imagine Dan Pfieffer was thinking that they obtained the birth certificates for the 2008 campaign cycle and just forgot when. It’s certainly not a significant detail. I think another campaign official made a similar statement earlier and corrected it when the 2007 date was pointed out.
I did some experiments once to see if an embossed seal would show up on a copy. The results depended on the copier/scanner and the settings. With some settings the seals would not show at all.
As far as the legibility of the seal I am sure Birthers would have complained if the seal on the Obama birth certificate were much sharper than on other birth certificates. I assume Hawaii just used the seal they normally used on all certified copies produced in the DoH.
One of the earliest mentions of the birth certificate by the Obama campaign was April, 2008 when it was used as a reference.
“Obama Turned Eight In August 1969, The Days Of Rage Occurred In October 1969. Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961. He turned eight on August 4, 1969. The Days of Rage, in which William Ayers participated, occurred in October 1969. [Obama Birth Certificate, UPI, 10/21/81]”
https://web.archive.org/web/20080501051607/http://factcheck.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/04/17/fact_check_on_clinton_attacks.php
The crease shows up in this FactCheck image because it is a higher resolution (2550 x 3300, 1.4 MBs) file than other copies. The metadata say it was made on June 12th, 2008 and FactCheck published a link to it on June 16th, 2008 with this statement:
“We asked for and received a copy from the Obama campaign. It is too large to display full size on this page, but you may click on this link to see a copy of the document just as we received it.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/obamas-birth-certificate/
Just as they received it.
Other sites apparently reduced the image they received (Politifact & LA Times both cut the top off the security paper) or the campaign made a reduced version to send out as mass e-mails. Those smaller files (Politifact – 93 KB and LAT – 196KB) do not show the crease.
Looking through just a few of the states’ statutes it is easy to find other states which say their birth certificates are prima facile evidence of the facts on the certificate.
According to Ike all of those certificates are worthless unless they are first submitted to a court. Guy is an idiot.
Not sure why the duplicated post.
I deleted one of them.
Yes, Ike is an idiot and demonstrates it often. He is claiming the state of Hawaii issues thousands of worthless birth certificates every year. What a moron.
On June 12th, 2008, the website Daily KOS posted the first image President Obama’s short form birth certificate. Read about it here:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2008/6/12/534616/-
As they explain in the article the image was trimmed before posting but the resolution was not greatly reduced and the creases of the folds can still be seen.
I wanna know where birthers think Obama snr and Dunham got the money to leave Hawaii and go wherever to have this baby? Aside from it making zero sense for them to leave Hawaii neither had the resources to leave. Dunham was 18, unemployed and living at home with parents who were pissed about the whole situation. Obama had arrived in America on a sponsored airplane from Africa. He walked around Honolulu instead of taking the bus so he could drink beer whenever he could. By the time the baby was born the relationship was pretty much over… one little tidbit about the marriage that hasn’t been brought up from what I’ve read but anyone living in Hawaii would realize from seeing the marriage license. They were married in wailuku. Wailuku isn’t on Oahu, it’s on Maui. It seems highly likely they jumped a ferry to Maui and eloped without her parents knowing about it. Something young people did in Hawaii a lot back in the day.
Jason
The Birthers have never come up with any plausible explanation as to why Ann Dunham would want to trek half way around the globe to a country with primitive medical services to give birth. Besides the unworkable logistics, the great health risk, and the expense of such a trip she would have been putting her child’s US citizenship in jeopardy.
The real explanation is because they want it to be true. These racist cretins just couldn’t swallow that a black man was elected and they wanted him to be de-legitimized in every way they could.
I’m going to call BS on the “show us the microfilm and it will all go away.” There have been quite a few things on microfilm that were dismissed as forgeries by birthers. Newspaper announcements, indexes of birth, and so on. The microfilm, if Hawai’i ever maintained them, is merely a copy of the original. It wouldn’t be all that hard to forge a microfilm even now, provided you have the source material. Since HDoH would have to be in on any attempt to forge the original (they have, after all, verified that they gave the BC and have verified that the online version is a match), they would have the necessary tools to make a credible forgery. And HDoH has something even better than microfilm. The have the original, bound records. Not copies, the original paper signed in ink by the parents, doctors, and registrars who reviewed the vital records as they were completed and filed. HDoH has come out and said that the hardcopy birth certificates they made for the President were copied directly from the original, bound records. And since they had the originals, there was no need to retain microfilm copies after the records were digitized in 2001 (part of the rationale was to eliminate the costly storage requirements of the state’s records).
Of course, it’s against the law for someone to walk in and inspect the originals. They are fragile, and contain private data. Not even the governor can inspect it without meeting certain very specific criteria. The law would have to be changed in order for your request to be allowed, or a judge would have to order inspection.
And you are lying when you claim Obama waited four years. The truth is, he released his BC less than 4 days after the issue first hit a notable online media outlet (the National Review). It’s not his fault you refused to recognize a valid birth certificate. It was clear that going to the effort to convince the HDoH to give him an old-style birth certificate was not going to be worth it at the time. By waiting to release it, he was able to use it brilliantly to eliminate Donald Trump from the 2012 presidential race.
People have to realize also the Hawaii dept of health feels no loyalty to Obama. He isn’t considered “local” if though he was born here. Maui county recently legalized medical pot and put up some licenses to sell weed. Whoever got these licenses was gonna make serious money and many people applied including some Hollywood heavyweights who have lived on Maui for a long time. The licenses went to locals connected to county officials.
It’s not clear why “people” must come to your representation of no HDOH loyalty to Obama, when there’s copious evidence to suggest otherwise. Such a bias would in no way have to be a manifestation of the entire HDOH. It would only require as few as one or two people to have some form of “loyalty” to Obama to produce the evidence we’ve seen. Palafox’s firing on trumped up charges in the midst of entirely faulty legal procedure (even as AG Louie was said to be closely involved) certainly reeks of inappropriate loyalty. Gee, I guess we have Abercrombie’s own words of how he was going to end “birther” questions, just as Obama encouraged and endorsed him in his run for HI Governor. Quid pro quo loyalties, it seems. Then there’s Fuddy, who had very close ties to the same Indonesian-originating organization of which Obama’s parent, Stanley Ann Dunham (if not he himself) was a part, Subud. That certainly smacks of skewed HDOH loyalty, too. Tim Adams, an office worker at HDOH conveyed via sworn affidavit that HDOH told him there was not Obama Long Form Birth Certificate (LFBC) on file with the HDOH. Prior to Obama’s being elected president, his campaign workers are on record saying he was born at Honolulu’s Queens Hospital, then later, the “official” LFBC represents it was Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital, even though prior to 2008, both hospitals had disowned that they had any records showing Obama was born there. BHO’s LFBC manifests several elements of forgery, and since it was produced entirely from with the HDOH, that’s where any forgery must have been vetted, by Fuddy at least, if no one else. That’s rather big time loyalty that got her family millions and herself a ticket to leave her job so she could get a make-over and put her feet in the sand for the rest of her days. That was all accomplished through a fake airplane failure and military divers arranging her fleeing the scene via their cover-up. (See http://www.TheFuddyHoax.com!
Obama’s campaign workers never said he was born at Queen’s Hospital. Neither hospital claimed they had no records. You are just making up crap aren’t you?
He/she’s not very good at making stuff up. Stating that Tim Adams was an office worker at HDOH does not help the claim when Adams’s own claim was that he was employed at the elections division of the city and county of Honolulu.
I didn’t say Tim was employed by HDOH, but he certainly his office was in close contact with the HDOH about this matter, as would be usual and customary for The Hawaii Office of Elections, in determining who is or is not eligible to vote, based on birth certificate information. So while you would pooh-pooh, quibble and spin about in which office he sat, the gist of his story is quite relevant to Obama’s fraudulent birth certificate.
“During the course of my employment,” Adams swears in the affidavit, “I became aware that many requests were being made to the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division, the Hawaii Office of Elections, and the Hawaii Department of Health from around the country to obtain a copy of then-Senator Barack Obama’s long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate.”
As he inquired about the birth certificate, he says, his supervisors told him that the records were not on file at the Hawaii Department of Health.
“Senior officers in the City and County of Honolulu Elections Division told me on multiple occasions that no Hawaii long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate existed for Senator Obama in the Hawaii Department of Health,” Adams’ affidavit reads, “and there was no record that any such document had ever been on file in the Hawaii Department of Health or any other branch or department of the Hawaii government.”
In a recorded telephone interview, Adams told WND that it was common knowledge among election officials where he worked that no long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate could be found at the Hawaii Department of Health.
“My supervisor came and told me, ‘Of course, there’s no birth certificate. What? You stupid,’” Adams said. “She usually spoke well, but in saying this she reverted to a Hawaiian dialect. I really didn’t know how to respond to that. She said it and just walked off. She was quite a powerful lady.”
“Tim Adams, an office worker at HDOH” — you actually did say Adams worked at the HDOH.
In any event, Adams (who briefly worked in the elections department) only declared that some other, unnamed person told him Obama was not born in Hawaii. Adams has no personal knowledge.
There’s a fancy legal word for that: Hearsay. Just us folks call it gossip and rumors.
Tim Adams’ boss says he did not have access to the information Adams’ claimed. He worked for the county of Honolulu, not the state of Hawaii. He was a temporary employee who worked for the county for about four months.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/right-now/2010/06/there_are_some_people_who.html
Snopes investigated Adams and found his story changed over time.
http://www.snopes.com/hawaii-official-no-obama-birth-certificate/
Um.. yes you did. Now, you said being in contact with the HDOH would be customary for
The Hawaii Office of Elections. It might be, but since Tim Adams did not work there, it would not have mattered in this case.
Since you are claiming they would know about who had a birth certificate because it would determine who was eligible to vote, why would they know about Obama’s? He was not a registered voter in Hawaii.
“Obama’s campaign has given the names of two different Hawaiian hospitals where he was supposed to have been born (Kapiolani Medical Center and Queens Medical Center, both in Honolulu). No one has been able to confirm the birth from either hospital’s records.” http://theobamafile.com/_eligibility/Hospitals.htm You sure can spin, can’t you?
Federal privacy laws now prevent hospitals from stating who born there. For example, no hospital has stated it was birthplace of the current president.
But the current President doesn’t have to follow the same rules as the previous one. Hmm… I wonder why that is.
Except his campaign never gave two names. You’re going off the word of some thoroughly discredited birther website
YOU: “Obama;s campaign workers never said he was born at Queen’s Hospital.” “You are just making up crap, aren’t you?” Yes, YOU are making up crap!. I had remembered the statement there about that birth-at-Queens information coming from the campaign (as I quoted from the research summary), but this time I also found that THE INFO CAME DIRECTLY FROM BHO. So, time to eat crow, Mr. Claimed Reality Check! http://theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaQueensHospital.jpg
If an Obama campaign worker said that Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital, then it should be no problem to provide a link to evidence showing a campaign worker making that statement.
“The Obama File”‘s unsubstantiated claim that such a statement was made is only evidence of that site’s active imagination.
And when you’ve got UPI reporters that can be cowed into changing a story like turning Queens Hospital into Kapiolani, you don’t need to worry about any evidence merely witnessed and written about by a very capable professional reporter. Furthermore, some hearsay evidence is admissible in court, and not all of that to which Adams attested is hearsay. He could “unmask” for a court the “powerful” people that made certain representations directly to him.
Posters around here are obviously quick to judge the quality of others’ representations based on spurious and scurrilous, personally-held criteria. Apparently you don’t like what the Obama File has to say. They likely differ concerning your representations, too.
Others around here quickly call “crap” or use the word dopey. How well grounded are those hasty pejoratives? Time will tell.
Butterdezillion stuff was shown to be crap by the commenters at Free Republic when she mistook Fuddy’s feet for frogmen.
And her contention that Fuddy was spirited away by the frogmen is dopey when they had an open casket funeral for her.
There’s no evidence any reporter was “cowed.” Yet another birtherie when confronted with a lack of evidence.
There’s no evidence that an Obama campaign worker said Obama was born at Queen’s Hospital. Passing off The Obama File’s fantasy as fact impresses no one.
Some hearsay is admissible, but not Adam’s. Cite the rule that says otherwise, “counselor.”
Time has already told how birther lies will be judged: birthers are nothing more than punchlines for the late-night comedians. “Any day now” hasn’t happened in the last nine years, and there’s no indication that will ever change.
UPI since updated the article.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/2008/11/04/Sen-Barack-Obama-Democrat-of-Illinois/33901225647000/
When responsible and ethical writers make an error, they admit they made a mistake.
Not the Butterdezillion Fuddy scuba diver crap. Here’s the problem. The certified copy of the birth certificate from 2007 has much of the same information as the LFBC. In 2007, the Director of Health was Dr. Fukino, not Loretta Fuddy. Dr. Fukino is still alive and well. And the open casket funeral for Ms. Fuddy makes her being spirited away by frogmen as very dopey.
IIRC, Butterdezilllion was helping write the Fuddy book being pushed by our new commenter.
https://postimg.org/image/wlaguylzh/
https://postimg.org/image/ytav72oy5/
OMG, that may be the stupidest thing I ever seen.
Okay, first off you can’t compare Keith Yamamoto’s head in the two images because they are at different angles. One is side view and other is just the back of his head. You also don’t see Director Fuddy’s head in the top picture plus she is lying at an angle to the camera. Without her and with the foreshortening caused by camera angle your measurements are incorrect. What you call ample padding looks more like air trapped under her clothing. Soles of shoes look pretty much the same but the camera angles angain make it hard to tell.
Example of foreshortening:
Your second image is just a retread of Paul Irey’s nonsense which was called junk in the Indiana courts. His stuff was debunked years ago.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130329150112/http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/2011/06/12/dear-birthers-grasping-at-straws-hurts-the-conservative-cause/
https://web.archive.org/web/20130330022452/http://raisedonhoecakes.com/ROH/2011/06/17/paul-irey-doesn’t-like-us-we-are-not-shedding-tears/#more-1870
BTW, the first “s” in Kansas looks like the typist first typed the letter “a” and then struck over it with the letter “s”.
Your opening remark show your disingenuousness. Your self-satisfaction at casting aspersions does not validate your own point of view.
There are two different individuals in the water beside KY in the two photos. There are several points of difference (which bear out over time, both before and after). The body shapes are different, the way the life vests lie differently even as they’re roughly in the same position is relevant. Fuddy’s bulginess and curviness versus the diver’s straighter lines are all relevant. The shoe differences are clear differences.
Notice how KY is not resting at all on his life jacket. Nice trick, that. KY’s statements are telling, as are those through Father Killilea, as well.
Simply because you can throw up a smokescreen with which you’re apparently satisfied does not make any of what you say correct. Take for example your hasty, “BTW, the first “s” in Kansas looks like the typist first typed the letter “a” and then struck over it with the letter “s”.” That nonsense doesn’t withstand scrutiny at all. The first ‘s’ does not show the completeness of EITHER ‘a’ in the same place, as if there had been any overstrike. You apparently simply like the thoughts that whimsically pop into your head, for they have no reality beyond that.
What I’ve said is not debunked by your representation that they’ve already been debunked elsewhere.
The proof of these things runs far deeper than your gangland drive-by-shooting to make them appear already laid waste.
The first s has a closed lower loop and the tail of the a. You can also see a faint image of the vertical downstroke of the a in the right of the upper curve of the s.
Sorry chief but your photo imaging skills are lacking. It is Director Fuddy and Deputy Director Yamamoto in both images. No scuba divers, no Navy submarine and an open casket funeral for Director Fuddy all say the same thing. Your fiction novel sucks.
You think Fuddy all of a sudden put on different shoes? You think she exchanged the infant life vest for that clearly adult life vest the diver was wearing in the lower image? Your skills and experience with the material are what’s lacking here. There’s plenty of hanky-panky going on in the scenario. Several of the cast, (oh, uh… passengers) are sporting electronic communications equipment. The frogmen are busy cutting the engine off the plane. It’s all in the unmistakable imagery that can’t be shot down the way you think it can with your drive-by mentality.
The submarine is confirmed, so that should tell you something about YOUR analysis.
The manufactured engine damage is confirmed by a witness on board the salvor’s ship.
The NTSB corruption for this event IS CONFIRMED from within their organization. So, do you begin to see how what you’ve sucked out of your thumb to type here just doesn’t carry nearly the weight you think it does?
The book to which you refer is not a novel. It’s a non-fiction documentary backed up through and through by facts and witnesses.
Don’t look now, but the things you’ve assembled to, “all say the same thing” are non-existent or unable to speak. None of that is particularly impressive, let alone persuasive.
Nice try at pejorizing an accurate representation. /s The US Navy delivered a nuclear submarine to the area that very day of the crash, bringing modern SEAL delivery vehicles, frogmen and their equipment within seconds of the Fuddy plane crash directly to the site. If that’s crap, it’s over $2B worth of it.
The NTSB was charged with conducting an investigation into an accident of the most serious nature, that is, one involving multiple serious injuries and a death. Other local and state authorities and agencies, who had jurisdiction and investigative responsibility in this incident, stepped surprisingly aside. The NTSB mis-characterized the evidence of what happened, misconstrued the evidence, came to false conclusions about the evidence and even falsified the evidence.
What weighty matter could have caused two such disparate agencies of our government to so falsify and cover-up the mendacious claims of a catastrophic engine failure when it NEVER HAPPENED? Someone very important wanted Fuddy extracted from the scene, and was content to see Cessna Aircraft Company and the $8B Pratt & Whitney Canada falsely besmirched in the process.
There’s plenty of information on the BHO LFBC that doesn’t occur on the COLB. That doesn’t get anyone off any real hook and it is not “the problem.” The LFBC is a forgery. Fuddy was neck-deep in false representations about Barry’s nativity.
The PTB didn’t want Fuddy ever to have to appear for a legal deposition, lest she sing like the chorister she was.
Whooops… “chorister she IS.”
And your proof the Navy sent a sub and seals to snatch Fuddy away is – let me guess a FOIA request to the Navy. So the very guys who were involved in your fantasy conspiracy sent you the very information needed to crack the case. Brilliant.
My guess is whatever the Navy sent you doesn’t match what you claim because of your misinterpretation.
The NTSB and Pratt and Whitney took the engine apart and know it was a turbine blade failure. Unfortunately not an uncommon occurrence for that type of engine.
I didn’t say SEALs, so please don’t put words in my mouth. I think SEALs have more integrity than to participate affirmatively in a partisan military-assisted on-going coup of the US Government. I think the frogmen delivered via SEAL Delivery Vehicles were private contractors.
I’ve seen imagery which lends weighty evidence to attest to these facts. I’ve seen the lies of the pilot and passengers be covered over by people in the NTSB, USCG, Hawaiian state and county governments and the FAA, who admitted to and affirmed destroying evidence in this case, against FAA policy.
Your fantasy representation is again something I never juxtaposed. Then you call your own dystopic synthesis “brilliant.” Ha! Please don’t bother imagining that your thoughts are my thoughts. Neither do your guesses squirt very far.
There were plenty of FOIA’s, however, so you may be assured there’s official documentary support. Which is not to say the PACFLT boys always gave straight answers, but that’s all part of the jaundiced package. Here and there patriots were doing what their oath required of them. We should all–and that SHOULD include you–be proud of them.
P&WC did not tear down the engine that ditched. For that engine, there was no failure prior to impact with the water. Rather, they tore down an engine purposely sabotaged (and left to burn, still sucking air–not the water the ditched plane’s engine was ingesting). For all that, there’s ample proof, in part provided by the reports and evidence provided by the corrupt, falsifying NTSB, on behalf of the Deep State. You should try reading the full, 415-page, color-photo-filled book at http://www.TheFuddyHoax.com. It’s got a good bit more than I can afford to type in an evening here.
WTF? You just said in your previous comment that the Navy brought SEAL equipment and Frogmen (in the Navy, they are SEALs) close by to the scene.
We will stop puttIng words in your mouth when you stop putting words in your mouth.
Your logic fails you. Just because our Navy brings frogmen and their equipment does not necessarily mean they’re SEALs. Intelligence agencies can and do arrange to be ferried around for their own ends. Those men are not necessarily SEALs. They may even be foreign nationals. In any event, they’re at arm’s length from the Navy regarding their chain of command and mission objectives.
“I think SEALs have more integrity than to participate affirmatively in a partisan military-assisted on-going coup of the US Government.”
Right but U.S. Navy submariners and Coast Guard rescue personnel don’t have that integrity.
Frankly, you are a disgusting POS.
Submariners or coasties that are not informed about how they’re being used for political purposes have no real option to do anything other than they’re ordered. That is not my insult to them. Unlike your quickly triggered reaction to something you may have thought you saw in my comment, I assure you it wasn’t there. Any degradation to them has come at the hands of the Deep State, not from me. I revere the service of our military personnel without any prejudicial disdain anywhere.
However, without your further apology for your deep disrespect, you’ve earned my never knowingly lifting a finger to respond to you again.
The Coast Guard rescue swimmers examine Director Fuddy in the water. Your entire fantasy that she had been replaced by a scuba diver is proof of your disrespect for professionals who jump out of helicopters into the open ocean to rescue people in distress.
My opinion of you stands.
“I’ve seen the lies of the pilot and passengers”
No what you’ve seen are minor inconsistencies that exist in ever incident of this type.
P&W examined the engine with the same serial number as the one Lin the Cessna 208b that crashed into the Pacific.
And no I won’t buy your book and more than I’d watch Donofrio’s movie on why the moon landings were fake.
The correctly serial-numbered engine was removed, likely the day before the crash, when the craft was known to be in the Schuman repair shop. It was replaced with a throw-away engine for the day of the crash. Afterward, the salvor brought up and displayed the original (sabotaged) engine on his barge. (There is proof and witnesses.)
What I’ve seen and presented to senior FAA and retired NTSB personnel has been agreed to be major inconsistencies that tell a very different story than the official narrative. Your characterization of them being “minor” is out of your ignorance.
So if understand your claim:
1) remove original engine (oe) from plane.
2) install replacement engine (re) in plane.
3) create turbine blade failure in oe.
4) crash plane with re in water.
5) put oe in ocean at crash site
6) recover oe and send to Pratt &Whitney
Is that about right?
This is getting to be more complicated than faking the moon landing.
Fuddy was not scheduled to give any depositions in Birther cases.
If they were going to spirit anyone away or take out completely, it would be Dr. Onaka who signed and certified both birth certificates and three letters of verification.
I don’t believe we have the full representation from ATO of his participation. The HDOH seems to insulate him rather completely from the public and commentary in that realm.
But there are problems that need to be answered: For example, on AZ SoS Bennett’s Verification, Fuddy’s 2-1/4″ Director Seal appears, but that seal is only valid when it occurs next to her signature, which was not on the document. ATO’s certifying registrar seal (1-5/8″) should have appeared next to his signature stamp, but it doesn’t. This CANNOT have been an oversight. It MUST be meaningful. WHY would ATO not lend use of his seal for that certification? That might suggest that ATO’s Registrar representation may have been falsely utilized by Fuddy. It was ATO’s seal he supremely and jealously guarded, where by contrast, one or more of the multiple ATO signature stamps may have been available to Fuddy, allowing the Bennett (INVALID) Verification result, as described above.
Exactly which presumably-certifying seal Savannah Guthrie said she felt on 4/27/11 on the BHO LFBC has never been publicly identified, but there’s ample reason (partly in light of the Bennett INVALID Verification) to believe it was something Fuddy placed because ATO did not agree to certify it as presented.
You do understand on’t you that the seal Dr. Onaka uses for birth certificates is the official seal of the Department of Health. Or are you claiming he uses an unofficial seal?
There is one and only one legal description of the Department of Health seal in Hawaii laws. The description specifically says reproductions of the seal can be enlarged or reduced for certificates.
Title 11 Chapter 1 §11-1-1 describes the seal and its uses.
Click to access prac_proc.pdf
Read it and shows where it says there is seal for use by the Registrar for certifying birth certificates.
Actually Dr.Onaka is out and about explaining specifics about President Obama’s birth certificate. From the International Identity Management Conference in Seoul, Korea September 23 – 25, 2014.
“Dr. Onaka illustrated the business processes of birth registry using the example of President Obama’s birth certicate, which was a point of controversy during the electoral campaign leading to the President’s election in 2008. He added that the business processes and the laws that govern birth registration in Hawaii are standard in all 50 states of the United States.”
https://publications.iadb.org/bitstream/handle/11319/7125/International_Identity_Management_Conference_Proceedings.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y
As usual, when a birtheer claims that a seal is missing, upon close examination I am able to find the missing seal. In the case of the Bennett verification, the ATO embossed seal is superimposed on the verification and signature stamps.
At the IIMC in Korea in 2014, Dr.Onaka discussed the business process of birth certificates and using President Obama’s certificate as an example, Dr. Onaka outlined the signature portion of the certificate.
“…the mother signed the certicate three days after birth, the physician certied the birth at four days, and it was registered in the State of Hawaii four days after the birth. Despite the fact that this preceded the existence of information and communication technology (ICT), it was still a very timely observation of birth.”
Birth – August 4th, 1961
Mother’s signature three days later – August 7th, 1961
Doctor certifying birth four days after birth – August 8th, 1961
State of Hawaii registering birth four days after birth – August 8th, 1961
Is the seal in the picture below not ATO’s seal? Does it not differ from the size and design of the Director’s seal, just as I described earlier? The seal ATO used in the picture below does not have the Director’s seal’s distinctive stars (having only raised dots in their place) and is 1-5/8″ in diameter, where the Director’s seal has a diameter of 2-1/4″.
Although ATO’s signature would appear to be on the Bennett Verification, an office worker’s initials appear to attest that the signature was applied by someone else, perhaps using an Autopen. In any event the Director’s seal MUST in all cases be accompanied by the Director’s signature, which was not the case for the invalidated Bennett Verification.
The lack of in-depth discussion evidenced by the South Korean conference document does not substantiate much of anything. The discussion is typified by what follows what you quoted, as he continues, ” In addition to the importance of birth registration
as a starting point in the creation of identity, death registration is the end point; that is, it terminates identity of an individual. The registration of births and deaths is an essential administrative and legal function of government, which should not be left to the parents or the family.” That’s hardly a noteworthy, in-depth exposition or refutation of any noted issues with BHO’s LFBC. And then having to note that it occurred only at an off-shore, Asian venue–hmm. I’m sure if you had a better example of ATO freely speaking his mind at mid-west US conference, you’d have supplied it.
https://postimg.org/image/6x56gsgct/
It is the official seal of the Department of Health in Hawaii. There is no other seal. Show us in Hawaiian law where ATO’s seal is described and where the laws says that the Registrar cannot use a 2 1/4″ seal.
The law specifically says the seal can be reproduced by enlarged or reduced. The reduced version is what Hawaii uses on their birth certificates.
Many legal folk were not-unreasonably working to bring it to that point of Fuddy’s being deposed, via both the courts and Congress. Just because such a deposition wasn’t yet scheduled is merely a hopeful, hyper-technical representation of the other side of that coin.
There were only two cases working at the time Vogt ‘s weird attempt at something and Taitz’s Mississippi case. Both were dimissed long before they even got close to the stage where Director Fuddy might have been subpoenaed to give testimony.
Congress has never been interested in interviewing anyone from Hawaii about the birth certificate. That was true in 2013 and is still true today.
Don’t forget about almighty Zullo. Any Day Now.
Perhaps some things have escaped your omniscience (which is not to say I should be the one to inform you).
“Perhaps some things have escaped your omniscience (which is not to say I should be the one to inform you).” is birtherspeak for, “I am again making stuff up.”
Because honest people provide evidence in support of their assertions.
The COLB has all the essential information name, place of birth, date and time, parents’ name. And includes parents’ race.
Mitt Romney and Ted Cruz both produced short-form birth certificates with the exact same info and no signatures or hospital name and Birthers didn’t care.
Although I haven’t looked at Romney’s or Cruz’s proffered certificates, I have no reason to think either was fraudulent. After considered examination of the BHO LFBC, I believe there are many reasons to consider it is a fraudulent forgery.
Romney’s
Cruz’s
Trump’s
No hospital names, no doctors names and no signatures from mother or doctor.
President Obama’s is not a forgery and it was this website and RC’s work which helped prove it.
I’d like to meet the document examiner that would declare a document as authentic without having the original immediately at hand. It’s not likely he’d be praised by his colleagues. To my knowledge no document examiner has worked with one of the two Fuddy proffered BHO LFBC originals. By contrast, a document might be able to be deemed a forgery without that personal examination of an original.
I would like to meet a document examiner who would declare a document suspect merely by examining a PDF file posted on the internet when the issuing authority has said it is a true and accurate representation of the information contained in the original records.
Oh wait, I could meet him. His name is Reed Hayes and all it would take is cash!
OMG, the Navy had assets around Hawaii that day. That’s the scoop of a lifetime.
Your sarcastic condescension does not suit a respectable conversation, ma’am (or sir).
That there were elements of sophisticated underwater military communications and diver gear caught in an actor/videographer’s lens on-site within seconds of the ditching was and remains quite newsworthy. How does one suppose anyone knew where to place such things so they would end up within a few meters of the ultimate ditching site?
Could it be that the ditching was a planned event? And how could one have known the engine would coincidentally have a “catastrophic .. failure” such that after the pilot would (coincidentally, of course) put his craft down at a planned spot on the water? And why would not of the passengers do any of the things passengers normally do in such situations, e.g., scream, call out, panic, look side to side at the water rushing up to greet them, reach for a life jacket, hold their loved ones’ hands, try to make a cell phone call home, or smell smoke. On the occasion of an actual catastrophic engine failure just two months prior over Maui, every last one of those example actions was reported by the passengers concerning what happened during their descent.
Why would the pilot, instead of progressing to the airport as he could have, choose to turn AWAY from the airport, flying in nearly the opposite direction while bleeding off 750+’ of altitude, just to have no other alternative than to ditch onto the water?
Why would the pilot lie to the FAA about what had just happened? Why would the pilot later change his story, lying again–in writing–to the NTSB?
All these things, in addition to the corrupt and fraudulent NTSB investigation were done to give Fuddy a plausible scenario from which to be extracted alive, while ostensibly dying, all confirmed by the passenger/actors.
Military-experienced divers train to do this kind of thing all the time. Military. Hmmm. military. Would that be analogous to what the dictator of a banana republic would do to stay in power–that is, use the military in support of eliminating potential problems? Is that any more egregious than using a country’s (oh, and add an ally’s) spy agencies to wiretap a political opponent, his political entourage and even his family?
https://postimg.org/image/nk0iv3dfx/
https://postimg.org/image/euagdlzd9/
https://postimg.org/image/4ndibsh8t/
https://postimg.org/image/b2cj8gnyl/
https://postimg.org/image/4nvfbdtu5/
https://postimg.org/image/6817t5j65/
Yes, Northland10, this is a much bigger scoop than your characterization of it.
“That there were elements of sophisticated underwater military communications and diver gear caught in an actor/videographer’s lens on-site within seconds of the ditching was and remains quite newsworthy. ”
Random pieces of flotsam float around the downed aircraft are not proof of anything.
And disproven claims of wiretapping don’t help your argument.
Although you may be talking about flotsam, I’m not. Many pieces of sophisticated, clandestine underwater communications networking (and other) gear is easily discerned by the cognoscenti, when displayed in 1080p and “coincidentally” worn by a former Green Beret that “just happens” to be on the flight.
https://postimg.org/image/jz4nbv8wd/
Hahaha, I’ve got earbuds too.
Wearing ear buds on a flight to block out engine noise and listen to music. How diabolical.
I wear earbuds or ear plugs every time I fly on a small turboprop like a Dash 8. They are incredibly loud especially during climb out.
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RC: It’s interesting that some posters apparently may keep others from being able to reply. (All David L’s recent comments do not allow me an active reply link.) Thus, in skewed fashion, such a person can appear to call unto himself “the last word,” or it can be made to appear that others just have nothing with which to come back. Please advise how this is appropriate to a respectable discussion on a level playing field. Thank you.
There is a maximum number of reply levels.
WordPress software (the blogging software used here) allows the owner to determine how deep threaded comments can go. This prevents it from going so deep that you end up with one word per line or one letter per line. When this happens I just reply to the comment above and (and provide a partial quote to give context).
The other posters here are not preventing your reply, it is just how the software works. Seeing how quick you were to blame others for something we did not and could not do, it does make me think that your whole Fuddy theory is clouded with the same method.
He couldn’t figure out how the software nested comments. Brilliant
And of course it has to be a conspiracy to silence his stupidity.
All competent conspiracies control blogs’ comment sections; that’s Conspiracy Theory 101.
Fuddyhoax is laughably stupid. He can’t even figure out how the blog software works.
(FYI: I set the comment nesting at 8 levels deep. If you nest deeper than that the comments become too narrow to be easily readable.)
So thefuddyhoax who can’t even figure out nested comments considers himself to be an expert? “Birther expert” is an oxymoron. He is perfect for Mike Volin’s WOBC Radio!
This is so exciting!: A random person on the internet imagines a conspiracy between Fuddy’s family, the airplane manufacturer, and numerous local/state/federal agencies. And obviously the media industry is in on as well because it refuses to tell the truth!
And the tell-all book can be yours for only $20! ($40 if you want the hardcover.)
Don’t forget all the anonymous experts from the military and the NTSB who have confirmed.
It looks like we ran him/her off. This is why can’t have anything nice.
And we’re just a few people on the internet. Imagine how the delicate flower would wither if an actual expert examined his “evidence.”
FYI, President Eisenhower’s birth certificate.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLUn5h3XkAAZ9yA?format=jpg
Several people in this thread have claimed to have scanned other documents, such as Ah’Nee’s BC, on a Xerox workstation and have gotten the same artifacts as seen on Obama’s LFBC. Why don’t some or even one of you upload something to youtube to prove it? I’d think that would be the first thing you would do. Saying you did something means nothing, until you “show me.”
I’m not going to be convinced until I see a high resolution photograph of the original LFBC released as a Jpg, or simply a high resolution scan with all the OCR or rasting or compression or whatever excuse you have, turned off. It’s been 7 years since that PDF of the LFBC was loaded to the Whitehouse website, and nobody has seen fit to replace it with something definitively convincing? That’s insulting, as if to say “Here is my crappy evidence, if you don’t like it, lump it.”
I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, but I know the LFBC is a fake. For 100 reasons, my favorite being the cloning of so many letters. I know it’s a fake until PROVEN not to be. Need a photographic scan or a photograph.
If you had even a bit of simple reading comprehension you would understand why the JBIG2 algorithm employed by Xerox duplicated shapes and letters to save bits.
So Obama was born in Hawaii but still had to fake his birth certificate. What kind of idiot would believe that?
Reading comprehension of blah blah blah… how about SHOW ME. More and more talk from a person who won’t show me just proves he’s lying.
Who knows what was on his real BC and why he had to fake a new one? Maybe it said his father was Frank Marshall Davis or maybe no man signed, I can think of a dozen reasons.
There are tons of information here and and at NBC’s blog about how the compression Xerox firmware and the workflow of the Whitehouse.gov LFBC PDF image explains the anomalies that Birther amateurs tried to claim were evidence for forgery. It would be a complete waste of time for me to spoon feed every Birther who still has questions.
I also made two Youtube videos demonstrating that a Xerox WorkCentre created similar anomalies when scanning a similar document. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvskeEUqQSNYB0D_UH8jg3ydD1Zd5z1CY
No, it’s not: it’s saying “This is a snapshot of my evidence, for those who are curious about what it looks like.”
If you want actual evidence, all you have to do is demonstrate a legitimate legal requirement for it, and pay Hawaii a few bucks to officially verify the facts.
More defensive smarm, as expected.
No, it was a serious attempt to remedy your ignorance.
Well, one small part of it, anyway: the fact that you asked for a JPEG proves that it extends far beyond what anyone here is likely to waste the time required to fix.
Because you don’t have one.
Here’s a high resolution digital photograph of a black&white scan of the LFBC, taken by Scott Applewhite (if I remember his name correctly), a photographer for the White House press corps. I am sure that this won’t convince you, however, because you are lying when you pretend that there is anything that will convince you. After all, the high res photos, taken from multiple angles, of the short form failed to convince you. And we have produced youtube videos demonstrating how the Xerox plus Mac Preview produces the same artifacts, as well as detailed instructions on how to do it yourself and jpgs of all the intermediate steps that you can use to check our work. We’ve even delved deeply into the mechanics behind why the Xerox and Mac Preview produce the artifacts.
Why don’t you simply put the link to these youtube video you made, without the insulting smarm. This photograph is crap because it has no trace of the green weave background pattern. A photograph of a black and white scan?
….and it’s LOW resolution!!!
Most ridiculous of all is the test where he printed out the PDF and rescanned it. How about scan something like a real BC from anybody, or a dollar bill, which is a high detailed complex document. Re-scanning a print of the document in question and finding the same flaws???? ROTFLMAO!! This is just adding more fraud to the hoax.
Oh gee, we never thought of that!
Though I thought it was Barack Obama’s BC that was being called into question, not the Johanna Ah’Nee BC that was supplied by the birthers. Yes, you completely missed the fact that we did the very thing you said we should do, right on this page! Though I do note the sly attempt to get us to commit a federal felony (it is illegal to copy US currency).
BTW, we also took the Obama LFBC that we printed out and scanned it on several other scanners and did NOT get the same artifacts. It was only when we scanned it on the Xerox WorkCentres that we got the same artifacts, though certain other high-end office copiers could generate some of the artifacts. In science, these are called controls. The positive control in this case is running another BC (the Ah’Nee LFBC) through the Xerox to demonstrate that it produces the same artifacts as seen on the Obama PDF. The negative control is running the test printout through different scanners to demonstrate that the Xerox is producing the artifacts, not the test printout.
Now you are being an idiot. The XEROX WorkCentre is what is called into question. Prove that a XEROX makes those artifacts on an original printed document. Any document, EXCEPT the one which already has those artifacts. Wow, you people are stupid.
Don’t use Ah’Nee’s BC either, because somebody has claimed that Zullo fabricated it. Use a dollar bill because everybody has access to them and any dollar bill would have similar artifacts on any XEROX WC. That would prove that Obama at one time had a real, printed paper LFBC and the artifacts were created by scannig it with the XEROX WorkCentre.
It’s not illegal to scan US currency you idiot.
But as usual, all talk without showing me. And I suspect there will be more talk, and no showing me. And I predict you will never show me. The left is made up of nothing but liars.
The test specimen I used was an original printed document. I printed it myself. It was printed on a new a new sheet of Simpson green basket weave security paper using an HP color laser printer. Simpson green basket weave security paper is what most people think Hawaii used to print both of Barack Obama’s birth certificates from 2007 and 2011.
Without having another birth certificate from Hawaii I could not have used a better test document.
Your statement about scanning a dollar bill shows you do not know how modern multi-function devices (MFD) like the Xerox Workstations actually work. If you don’t know their basic functions work, then your attempt to debunk the work down by the folks here is lacking in any expertise.
Scanning US currency may not be illegal but modern office MFD machines will not scan or copy US Currency. It will result in an error. Remember, scanning is part of the 2 part copying process (scanning and printing).
So copy an old bill printed before 1996, then.
This thread is not about dollar bills though, so let’s pretend you are not sidestepping the issue by dragging red herrings across the trail. Tell me again that Scott Applewhite made a photograph of a black and white scan of the original document without using a macro lens (in his interview he said he didn’t have one), in which all the lines on the document are straight and the whole thing is equally in focus from the center to edge, that was somehow saved as a pdf (Adobe doesn’t make cameras) called ap_obama_certificate_dm_110427.pdf
You see, the camera lens is closer to the center of the page than the edges. Unless the camera had a tiny pinhole aperture giving it a huge hyperfocal distance on each limit of the depth of field, which is something you see in cheap Kodak box cameras and never in high end cameras, you would have to change focus from center to edge. And if you had a high enough depth of field to get the whole page in focus, there would be either pincushion or barrel distortion resulting in curved lines. It would probably be pincushion, which means the lines closer to the edges would curve in a concave fashion relative to the center. But all the lines are dead straight. The only way the lines would all be straight would be, if it were done on a scanner and not with a camera.
And when Applewhite was asked why the whole picture was blue, he said he didn’t know. Wow, a professional photographer working for the Whitehouse who knows nothing about lighting. Sure, that’s easy to believe.
So we can forget the whole Scott Applewhite lie.
Applewhite was using a high resolution professional grade digital camera. The image was first posted as a JPG. Later some versions were posted as a PDF on line.
I explained the blue tint in my article I wrote after I exchanged emails with Applewhite. The press room has blue everywhere. Applewhite almost certainly used ambient light to avoid the glare of a flash so the reflect blue light would have explained the tint.
https://obamadiary.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/2013-12-20t210205z_1612502329_tb3e9ck1mf7o0_rtrmadp_3_usa-obama.jpg?w=852&h=533&zoom=2
Just trying to learn here. Hawaii sent Obama a certified copy / abstract, which was a photographic reproduction of the record they have in Hawaii, printed on white paper, then Obama scanned that and printed it on Simpson security paper with green basket weave, something Hawaii doesn’t use. Then Obama scanned the copy he had made on the Simpson basket weave paper, using a Xerox WorkCentre, which created all the digital artifacts, and loaded the pdf onto the White House website?
Ok, so he didn’t upload his real birth certificate, but a doctored version on phony green Simpson paper. Like I said before, in doing this, he told the American people “Here’s some really crappy evidence, if you don’t like it, lump it” which is his way of saying “F You” to America, something he did for 8 years in almost everything he did. So it doesn’t come as a surprise.
I think I’ll take my New York drivers license, scan it and print it out on Simpson green weave paper, scan that, and show it to a cop, and see what he thinks of my way of saying “F You” to the state of New York and all its citizens and officials. That would make me sort of an a’hole wouldn’t it?
You have not been paying attention.
Obama requested a certified copy of the original birth certificate on file (which was exceptional since Hawaii no longer issues copies of the original certificate).
Hawaii DOH copied the original certificate onto Green Basketweave security paper, twice.
The registrar affixed his certification stamp and the seal was added to these, now certified, copies.
Hawaii gave the certificates and a letter to an attorney, I think, to deliver them to the White House.
The White House Communication staff took the certificate and copied it onto white 8.5×11 paper as part of the handout given to the press.
White House has a press conference. Applewhite at some point takes a picture, with his good camera but no flash, of the copy of the certificate in the press packet. Because the room is filled with blue and white reflects, the picture has a blue tint.
Somebody else (sorry forgot her name) takes a picture of the actual certificate, but low-quality image.
After the PC, a staffer takes the Certified Copy of the Birth Certificate (which is on Green Basketweave security paper), goes to a Xerox WorkCentre and scans the certificate to email.
A staffer, maybe on the digital team since they usually used Macs (confirmed in pictures of them), opens the image, flips it since it was upside down, and saves it as a PDF (and maybe also a JPEG)
The web team posts the PDF to the White House website.
Here is the simple thing though (apologize for the yell), THE PDF POSTED IS NOT A CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE, IT IS A PICTURE OF ONE. It cannot be used as a Birth Certificate anywhere. Only the certified copy they scanned can be used. The scanned version was posted so that other people could see it. It is not official and is for informational purposes only.
However, the State of Hawaii has verified to courts and state governments, multiple times, that the information on the PDF matches the information on file in their office. If the information on the PDF is the same as Hawaii has, why would somebody have forged it?
Savannah Guthrie from NBC took a couple of pictures of one of the two originals with her cell phone. One of these clearly shows the embossed seal.
It is also worth noting that Les Kinsolving from WND was at the press briefing and when asked afterwards was satisfied the certificate was authentic.
Ah yes, that’s the name I could not remember.
OK so if you make a black and white copy of a page printed on Simpson green basketweave security paper, you get no basketweave at all, thereby rendering it useless as a security paper.
In reality, security paper prevents copies being made, whether color or black and white, by making a giant VOID across the whole page.
If the copier cannot reproduce the basketweave, then it served its purpose. That copy which is not on security paper cannot be used for an official purpose. The unofficial copy in the press packet is not an official purpose.
The purpose of this type of security paper is that is not effectively reproduced on a copier. It was not reproduced on the informational copy in the press packet.
No, not every security paper prints void.
The Simpson website says that their basketweave security papers have covert fibers that prevent photocopies by, I assume, and am sure I’m correct, the copy machine makes images of the fibers, which will spell out VOID or COPY or something of that nature. I will, next post, show you a copy of my optometry license which is printed on security paper and does that.
Many versions of security paper will print void or copy, but not all. In my personal opinion, I think Hawaii should really use a better type or other features (like my Michigan one), but they do not, so there it is.
I just took a look at my certified BC and a copy I made for the passport folks (they want a B&W copy for their files but I bought the original for them to see, though unneeded since they used my expired Passport). The copy does show void, but it is so faint it would not be picked up by a camera photo. I had to look at it very closely to see it. I doubt the remains of the security background would be picked up either, especially if obscured by reflected color from the room.
The watermark map of the state of Michigan does not survive copying.
One of many features they embed in security paper.
My example of what security paper does.
http://hyzercreek.com/securitypaper.html
Simpson claims theirs does this as well.
http://www.simpsonsecuritypapers.com/security-paper-features
Simpson claims that if you copy their paper you get VOID all over the copy. Therefore, let’s forget about that AP copy of Obama’s BC, it’s totally impossible.
I just debunked this entire thread. Bye now.
Did you read your link? Only their VoidSecure brand contains creates a VOID on the copy. Their DesignSecure brand does not have the void mark. Since VoidSecure was not trademarked until 2008, it would not be unexpected if Hawaii was still using DesignSecure, especially for an exception copy, not their normal certificate.
Sorry, it looks like your “debunking” failed, not that it matters. Nobody, not one state officer, not one Congressman, not one court, and not federal government official has prosecuted anybody for any supposed forgery. You can claim all you want but former President Obama served 8 years as the legitimately eligible, elected, and inaugurated President of the United States.
I’m sure the Simpson sales representatives were on top of their game pushing the newer product. New safety feature, new higher price, new higher profit margin. Obviously they use the VoidSecure, which came in greed basketweave;
Click to access Product-List-2017.pdf
You are sure they pushed their product, so that is what Hawaii used? You have made a conclusion based entirely on what you think they might have done. That’s not evidence or proof, it is just your assumption because it fits your opinion. Because they could did not mean they did.
Are you sure, “Since VoidSecure was not trademarked until 2008, it would not be unexpected if Hawaii was still using DesignSecure, especially for an exception copy, not their normal certificate.”
So, making two birth certificates for the president of the US, they would be MORE likely to use DesignSecure than VoidSecure? Really? Because it’s an “exception copy”? That’s not evidence or proof, that just you saying so because it fits your opinion. Saying so doesn’t mean it’s true.
Making a couple of LFBC’s for the POTUS might make them crack out a box of their best stuff, n’est pas? What would they be saving it for if not the president? The Queen?
Ah, but it only matches because they put it in their files, in exchange for a promise from the Lizard People that Hawaii would be spared from The Great Culling that would occur after their ringer “Obama” used the American presidency to take over the world.
That also explains why they never released Loretta Fuddy’s autopsy: she didn’t actually die. The unexpected dunking in salt water shorted out the batteries in her human suit. She has a new “skin” now, and they’re going to run her in Iowa’s 5th congressional district this fall, so she’ll be well-positioned to influence the selection of the next president. And kept at a safe distance from any ocean.
You are the embodiment of the Dunning Kruger effect.
Dunning Kruger is somebody with a phony name like Reality Check who thinks he knows more about optics than an optometrist who does work designing IR bolometers and both optical and IR telescopes for GE to be sold to NASA and many others. You can look me up, NY optometry license 4724.
I especially like his latest claim that he thinks salesmen would have pushed a new, more expensive product, so that is what Hawaii used. There’s some serious irrefutable logic there.
I especially like his latest claim that they continued to use their inferior product for years after the more secure product was available, especially for “an exception copy, not their normal certificate,” when the “exception product” was a birth certificate for the president of the United States, and their normal product was for building permits and tickets to see the hula dancers at the luou. There is some real serious scientific argument right there.
So, Hawaii DOH had 2 products available to them, DesignSecure and VoidSecure (which prints shows VOID when copied).
My argument is that, since the copy Applewhite had did not say VOID, it is probable that Hawaii used DesignSecure, absent any hard evidence to the contrary.
Morgan’s argument is that salesman would have pushed the product and Hawaii would only use the newer, more expensive, and more secure product (because state governments do that) and therefore, Applewhite’s copy was a forgery as is the PDF online. This was some great forgery conspiracy completed for reasons, I am not yet sure.
Let me introduce to Occam.
This is what AP photographer J. Scott Applewhite told me about how he took the photo of the LFBC handout:
I have done a few experiments with documents printed on the Simspson green security paper and yes I have seen the pattern completely disappear when copying in black and white. No it does not show void or any hidden text when copied. I might add that neither did Johanna Ah’Nee’s certificate.
I concede the argument. Not because of the arguments you give, but because of something I figured out, being smarter than you and all.
Look closely at: http://abcnews.go.com/images/Politics/ap_obama_certificate_dm_110427.pdf which your argument says is a photograph of a scan of the original document. Use a laptop or desktop monitor, not a smart phone. Look at the top of the document around the word “Hussein” and slightly to the left of it and below it. You see a shadow of the word OAHU. Above that you see other letters faintly. You may have to adjust the brightness of your screen or hold it at different angles.
I’m thinking these are shadows of the embossed seal. Not a water mark which we know doesn’t transfer, but embossed letters cast shadows which can be picked up by the printer, and the depressed area is not flat against the scanner glass so absorbs more light and appears darker.
scanner not printer
Actually, what you are seeing is the next page in the press packet (which happens to be a B&W printout of the short form certificate that was hosted by Snopes, IIRC). Applewhite took a photo of each page of the press packet, and on all but one, you can see the next page showing through. You can demonstrate this at home. Take regular paper (20#), print off two pages of text, and where there is white space on the first page, you can make out the text on the next page.
Thanks. That checks out.
That’s something that we figured out long ago. I think the 4 pages of the handout included copies of correspondence with the Hawaii DoH, copy of the short form, and copy of the long form.
Also I wonder if the optics expert Mr. Wright considered the Applewhite photo may have been cropped?
Morgan Wright wrote:
That’s funny coming from someone who has been shown to be wrong and about every single point you have tried to make here. The visibility of some of the other page of the handout has been written about on several blogs and forums. Glad to see you are coming around though.
Morgan Wright.
Here is what the Hawaii Department of Health told fornesic document examiner Ivan Zatkovich.
“A representative of the Hawaii Department of Health described how the copy of the Obama Birth Certificate was produced. She stated that the copy of Obama’s birth certificate was produced by taking the original paper birth certificate, which was black printing on white paper. The original is then placed on the photocopy machine and that image is copied onto green ‘safety paper’. That green copy is then stamped, dated and signed by the State Registrar.”
Click to access Obama-report.pdf
I wrote an article about the Zatkovich report a while back.
Xerox Theory Consistent with the Ivan Zatkovich Report