Frank Arduini does it again–20 Shades of Vogt

Frank Arduini a Birther debunker extraordinaire and frequent guest on Reality Check Radio has done it again. He had previously eviscerated affidavits by Mike Zullo and Mara Zebest. Now Frank sets his sights on Doug Vogt in a new critique, 20 Shades of Vogt:  Digital Document Forensics for Amateurs

Doug Vogt is the copier salesman, publisher of pseudoscience, and self-proclaimed “document expert”  from Seattle, Washington who recently tried to force a federal judge to submit his affidavit with what he claimed were “20 points of forgery in the President’s long form birth certificate” to a grand jury. The judge of course denied the silly request.

Frank has now published a point by point refutation of Doug Vogt’s latest:

[Update 12/31 – I have extended an offer to Doug Vogt and Paul Irey to debate Frank Arduini on a future episode of RC Radio.]

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47 Responses to Frank Arduini does it again–20 Shades of Vogt

  1. gsgs says:

    very good. How many hours might he have put into it ?
    45 pages, long read.
    I could need a summary with just the key-points.
    While trying to organize the article like a scientific paper
    with references and such he still uses the “correct” Obot-language
    with crackpot etc.

    • Sterngard Friegen says:

      gsgs – If a person claims the earth is flat and a scientific article debunks the claim — opnce again — at some point it’s OK to call the earth-is-flat proponent as a crack pot. We don’t have to take absurd claims seriously. Epectitus demonstrated over and over again that Vogt deserves the crack pot title. As for you, gsgs, you’re a concern troll. We don’t give a shit what you think.

      • gsgs says:

        Expectitus must have been already working on it during the time
        (some days ago) when fogbowers crtisized (and finally banned me for it)
        my attempt and suggestion to do just that work. But he didn’t hint at it
        That same work which is now being hailed by that same people.
        Maybe it’s about me, maybe it only became acceptable to
        fogbowers because of the added Vogt insults and denigrating,
        maybe both, who knows.
        It’s generally considered bad practice in such articles.
        Even in smear-magazines.
        You attack the theory, not the person.
        Maybe we can have a compressed version with the facts only,
        that could also serve as a summary. It should require only a fraction
        of the work that was put into the long thing.

        • gsgs says:

          correction: I wasn’t banned at fogbow, only accidentally put
          into the wrong fema room. But still somehow restricted.
          The reason was now officially given as unrelated to the Vogt-affidavit
          examination, but rather something about political polling
          ————————————–
          I will probably print and examine the Ardini paper later ….
          —————————————————-
          examining whether the halos are created by unsharp mask is also
          postponed. Sorry that Kevin Vicklund has quit.

        • What the heck is wrong with denigrating someone who claims to be an expert, and who is most assuredly not? Arduini’s reaction to Vogt is perfect IMO. And YOU wouldn’t get the negative reactions you whine about if you weren’t operating in bad faith, refusing to see the plain palpable truth that no forgery of BHO’s documents has occurred? At every turn you assume SOMETHING must be wrong, even when every argument for it has been conclusively refuted.

          • gsgs says:

            it’s just bad practice. You won’t see it in scientific articles,newspapers,books,
            I did often say, that I don’t think it’s a forgery and that Zullo/Vogt even if correct
            in some details still have little evidence of forgery..
            Just not in every post and without the crackpot/idiot/ etc. terminology
            Both are clearly people of above average intelligence.

          • roald says:

            gsgs, reputable scientific journals and media do not waste their reader’s time printing opinion pieces and speculation, at least not beyond the first time those opinions and speculation are refuted. Come up with demonstrable evidence or a new theory and people will focus on that. Continue to be a concern troll or repeat debunked lies and people will focus on you.

        • Slartibartfast says:

          gsgs,

          Your comment is a bunch of bullshit. First off, you were thrown into FEMA Camp 7 1/2 for, as Thomas Lee Brown suggested, operating in bad faith (I’m sure your habit of making offensive statements and re-affirming them when it was explained to you why they were offensive didn’t help). The attacks on you were never personal—they were based on your own comments which evinced your naive methodology, ignorance of the broader context and the false equivalences with which you constantly trolled us.

          Before you start whining about your person being attacked, you should address the myriad of substantive attacks on the merits of your comments. Or you should just shut up—maybe if you stopped commenting and started trying to understand what other people are saying you would actually learn something.

  2. W. Kevin Vicklund says:

    And Frank has pretty much said everything I had left to say. Not that it hadn’t already, but the forgery claim has been debunked beyond a shadow of a doubt. At this point, there is pretty much nothing I can add to the discussion, and I have new responsibilities at work and home that prevent me from being able to sneak time at lunch or after hours on the company machine that has some of the software I need. So as part of my New Year’s resolution, I’m walking away from following birtherdom after tomorrow to focus on other things.

    It’s been fun, and I’ll probably check back in a few months, but for now it’s time I moved on.

  3. gsgs says:

    above version was deleted, the link is dead.
    here is an updated version :

    I’ve just heard about a version with 39 pages ?!

  4. John says:

    Frank Arduini can debunk Vogt’s work all he wants but I don’t think it matters much. The fact is, the CCP has says they don’t share Vogt’s conclusions. That being said, I think Vogt’s work is just that – Crack pot. As for the CCP, they said they have Ironclad evidence that can never be refuted to show the birth certificate is a forgery. They also have other “Universe Shattering” information. I am at a hazard to guess what this evidence or information is but I have sususpions.

    • The only part of Vogt’s claims that Mike Zullo disagrees with Vogt on is the identity of the forger. Zullo has never said he disagreed with Vogt’s other analysis. As a matter of fact the video’s and reports on the MCCCP website still makes most of the same claims.

      How long will you continue to believe Mike Zullo has anything when he has presented nothing new since the faked race codes in almost 18 months?

    • They’ve said they had ironclad evidence since Day One but everytime they made that “evidence” public it fell apart under the least bit of scrutiny. Which is why the CCP is no longer telling people publicly what they have.

  5. John says:

    I see 3 possible reasons or ways the birth certificate could be a forgery and can never be refuted.

    1. The CCP may have gotten someone to talk – Dr. Fukino perhaps. If true, it is all being hushed up.

    2. The Reed Hayes Report – Hayes is a handwriting expert. The only handwriting on the BC is the signatures of Dunham, Sinclair and Lee. While no one has questioned the validity of those signatures, if it has been determined by a handwriting expert that those signatures are cut and paste jobs then the birth certificate is indeed a forgery. Dunham’s signatures has always troubled me because it looks “artificial”. I am sure the signatures are probably one the fundamental crutches of Reed Hayes report and the Xerox evidence has never addressed the signatures.

    3. It’s possible the CCP has been able to obtain Virginia Sundahara’s original long form birth certificate. Since Nordyke does possess hers, its not beyond the realm of possibility that one of Sundahara’s relatives has been able to find it. it’s possible the birth certificate number is the same as the one on Obama’s thus proving the forgery. The long-form birth certificate of Virginia Sundahara has never been released. While her COLB has been released with a different birth certificate number, the COLB is a computer abstract that can easily be manipulated. With the recent death of Loretta Fuddy and with no apparent cause of her death (the investigation is still outstanding, but no one seems know anything or saying anything) there is no reason to trust the Hawaii DOH about anything or any Hawaii official for that matter.

    These are just speculations but the only reasons I can come up with at this time.

    • 1) More “there is evidence but nobody can see it” garbage? Holy Mike. The CCCP must present real evidence, or STFU.
      2) Calling Reed Hayes a handwriting expert is like confusing an astrologer with an astronomer. No real expert would even give an opinion on a signature based on a digital image. Besides, the “ironclad” proof supposedly in Hayes’ report… WHERE IS IT? Oh, that’s right… “evidence we have, but can’t show anyone” again. Yeesh. How gullible are you folks? Oh, plus: “Dunham’s signatures [sic] has always troubled me because it looks ‘artificial’.” That’s the logical fallacy “ad ignorantium” (perfect for you)… in other words “I don’t understand it so it must be wrong.”
      3) Burden of proof. There is EVERY reason to trust Hawaii’s records until you show evidence of fraud. Which will never happen… not because someone is covering up the fraud, but because it doesn’t exist.

    • roald says:

      John, have you ever heard the medical school adage, “When you hear hoofbeats think horses, not zebras.”? While it applies here, I will take it one step further, “When you see horses, think horses, not zebras in disguise as part of a decades-long conspiracy.”

    • Their are an infinite number of imaginary ways that “the birth certificate could be a forgery and can never be refuted.” Unfortunately, birthers have never presented an actual one.

  6. John says:

    As for the “Universe Shattering” Information, I have a couple of guesses.

    1. Maybe something Mia Pope gave the CCP is really “Universe Shattering”.

    2. But, I really believe that the “Universe Shattering” could be that CONGRESS KNOWS!!!. Congress may have secret classified documentation that has investigated all about the Obama’s eligibility problem. (everything, birth certificate, SSN, etc.) Congress’s conclusion is that Obama’s is ineligible. Unfortunately, this information can never be released and Congress can never go birther because a 1000 cities would burn and our government would essentially collapse if Congress were to suggest that Obama is ineligible to the POTUS. Therefore, Congress has no choice but allow Obama to serve and can never give any suggestion that Obama is ineligible. This would seem to fly in the face of the CCP’s intent to get a Congressional hearing but it seems the CCP has been quite silent about that for quite some time. While Mike Violin and others can try to get Congressional Hearing, the CCP knows it will never ever happen. Of course, the CCP never wants to disappoint or discourage birthers. Given the recent developments we have seen from some Congressman or Senators, this would be the only logical or reasonable explanation. Even an open suggestion by Congress that Obama’s birth certificate is a forgery (not stating he ineligible) could lead or imply that Obama is ineligible and would likely lead to complete chaos in the country.

    • Garbage. If he were really ineligible, he SHOULD be impeached and removed. Biden would step in, and everyone else would remain. No “chaos.” Congress refuses to say he’s ineligible because THEY KNOW HE IS. End of story.

      • John says:

        I disagree. I do believe Congress can never remove Obama or latch on the birtherism even if he was ineligible. Such an act would completely dismantle our government and everything would essentially collapse. Think about it. The military would basically stop working (What military officer would want to follow a ineligible commander in chief, let alone there would no longer be a chain of command because the chain of command begins with Obama.), every SCOTUS decision would now be question since Kagan and Sotomyer could never appointed in the first place, so you have chaos in our courts. You would have chaos on the social level because all social economic decisions and programs would all be in flux. And you have chaos on the international level because all those decisions would be in flux. Total chaos in my opinion. Even the suggestion that Obama’s BC is fraud could lead to chaos.

        • Well we know what you believe is bullshit john. Not once have you ever been right about a single claim you’ve made. Not once has one of your predictions ever panned out. If Congress had the votes they could remove the President. They won’t latch on to birtherism because its a total loser with the American public. Any congressman who openly goes birther will get primaried or voted out of office.

          You really have no idea about the structure of our military do you? Commanding officers can give orders independent of the President. The de facto officer doctrine would apply. The military didn’t cease to operate when Woodrow Wilson had a stroke and was incapacitated. The military didn’t cease to function when FDR died. Scotus is an independent branch of government their decisions would not be affected. Sotomayor and Kagan would still be Scotus Justices as the De Facto Officer doctrine would apply.

        • As ultimate rationalizations for birther failure go, I suppose that is as good as any. It is at least a very good thing that John understands exactly how comprehensive that failure actually is.

    • Mia Pope? Hahaha you really are gullible John. Mia couldn’t ever prove she had ever met Obama. All she has is a combination story of claims other birthers made. She pulled together stuff from Larry Sinclair, Orly Taitz, Susan Daniels and others to create her story. During her Jeff Rinse interview she said she never actually saw Obama do drugs she assumed it because his lips were a darker color. The same thing happens with nicotine usage.

      Mia’s claims were disputed regarding using Soetoro in school by the yearbooks during the years he attended there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri_TnW6I7O0

      Each year he is listed as Barry Obama. Mia Pope has absolutely no corroborating witnesses No proof she ever met Obama. Nothing to support her story whatsoever.

      Yes Congress knows that birthers like you are full of shit and have nothing to back up their claims. Stockman was never on board which is why Zullo recently claimed Stockman and congress doesn’t matter anymore. They got shut down by every one they talked to because they had no “real evidence”. This was proven by the Representative Woodall meeting Zullo had. Zullo presented the same tired information, had no real pitch and presented no secret information. Once birthers realized how much this hurt their claims the video was set to private by the user who uploaded it.

      You’re a nutjob James.

      • That’s a fine grasp of reality you have there. Claims with no proof to back them up are worthless. Extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence are worse than that. Those making such claims who get mad because nobody takes them seriously are ludicrous, if sometimes entertaining, and have earned the mockery they receive.

      • John says:

        Zullo’s meeting with Woodall and was time limited. it was also placed on YouTube for the world to see. Zullo will not reveal his evidence until the proper time and in the appropriate forum.

        • Time limited? He had a solid amount of time to talk. You’d think he would get the super secret stuff out there for Woodall. But alas the used car broker couldn’t even do a typical elevator pitch to prove his case. Yes it was placed on youtube for the world to see and taken down 2 hours after it was posted and Zullo looked like a fool. Zullo won’t reveal anything since every time he does it falls apart under the lightest of scrutiny.

        • Do you have a copy of the video John? I would be glad to post it for all the world to see. Just email me a copy or send me a link.

        • Northland10 says:

          John: Zullo will not reveal his evidence until the proper time and in the appropriate forum.

          Zullo’s forum: Amazon.com
          Zullo’s proper time: When the e-book is finished.

          Either that, or Zullo is waiting for any statute of limitation to run out so he can make the claim that he cannot do anything about it. John will then repeat the claim endlessly, like the troll that he is.

        • Sure, John.

          Any…

          Day…

          Now…

        • Hektor says:

          Uh, John, if Mr. Zullo’s presentation is time limited then all the more reason for him to “cut to the chase” and present the most damning evidence he’s got. It’s an audience he said (at the time) he wanted (i.e. with a congressman).

          I do love how that there is a sekrit magical time that is the only and absolutely perfect moment for Zullo to reveal all, and we just have to believe and clap loudly enough even though through his silence the supposed usurpation continues unabated. It just never seems to come now, does it John?

        • John

          I am still waiting for you to send me a copy of that video of Zullo’s meeting with Rep. Woodall that he placed on YouTube. A link would work fine too.

        • Has John ever backed up a single claim?

  7. gsgs says:

    the BC being forged would not make Obama ineligle, afaik

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